Agristability question

[wd40]

If you get a request for a "clawback" request an audit. That may delay things for a year and may well show them wrong. If eveeryone asked for an audit, you can imagine the clogged pipeline.

[skhadenuf]

Is there any where available the stats on payouts and what is clawed back, this is supposed to be agriSTABILITY not chaos. People are getting bills from clawbacks going on back to 2005 billed this year. Is that stability? And I will bet the clawback is based on fictitious values at best, government clawbacks always strike agriculture first. It's easy to say audit, some guys around here requested one and when cais was proved wrong they audited all years on their farm and then ended up paying more than the original bill and tied up the accountant for 2 and half years. I'm telling you guys this is a major fu%% up happenning right under our noses.

[Hopperbin]

Oh yes burnt that is the point that I missed, the accountant fees to straighten out the screw up will cost you maybe a couple grand at the least plus you must pay the money they gave you back. Sucks.
Will definately hurt during times like this. You know the one thing that accountants like the most is fudging up the Agristability, they make a killing on that, a lot of accountants need to be kicked in the balls for what they do in my opinion.

[Hopperbin]

WD what does the government do during the audit? Do they come out to meet you and the accountant and hammer things out within an hour or do they make phone tag calls that cost another few thousand dollars in accountant fees?

[burnt]

We do our own applications and with my wife being a book keeper, she is meticulous in accuracy. So it isn't a matter of anyone fudging numbers on our end, rather that the program people said that we qualified on the basis of their calculations. And THAT is the scary part.

[Sawbones]

Did the packers have to pay back their millions when they started making in excess of a million dollars a day in profits in 2003. Did the feeders have to pay back their millions when they cashed in on the $17/bu canola on their silage land? If one sector did not have to pay back their dollars, why did the cow/calf operator. The equity payout was for a payment at one point in time... not carried forward until prices corrected themselves.

[perfecho]

Good point!

[perfecho]

In response to all of your questions:

Yes, the administration will take the position of processing applications with their best interest first, your second. The issue is a producer needs to know what the admin can and cannot do.

Too many blame the program and the administration for the problems - not necessarily correct.
1) Were the applications prepared correctly?
2) Did you or the preparer calculate a payment? Most just send in the information without the last step. Its like sending in some receipts for your tax return and see what CRA comes back with... we don't do that but too many people do this when it comes to AgriStability. Too many of my friends go to small time accountants that simply plug the numbers on a form and don't look at anything else.
3) When you received the interm pmt, what did you do with that cash at that time. If crop insurance covered off the advance, are you worse off???
4) If you do the calculations and come up with 0 for a payment and a cheque arrives, you need to review the calculations to find what it different. There was a whole pile of applications processed incorrectly and that's a large reason for the overpayments.
5)If you are in an overpayment position did you go to someone to have it reviewed or at least a second opinion. Are you disclosing the structure change data correctly? If you have deferred sales to the next year have you made sure you did not double up and include in inventory? If you produce a specific product that is different that the commodities listed are you demonstrating that to the administration and using an alternative price verses what's given?

Its a historical based margin program, its not perfect but its the best we have ever had. If your margins are tough or non existent, then there are other issues that need to be addressed. The argument that one enterprise offsets the other and reduces payment entitlement is true, but in reality, your have not lost as much "true money" when this happens either.

Trust me, there is a lot more to the program and the processing that farmers can do with either the right help or the dedication to learn.