Agristability question

[dfarms11]

Is agristability using different values for cattle for year end vs beginning now? At least if prices are any different?

[frustrated1]

My experience with the program is they'll do whatever it takes to screw you out of a payment. Yes, I'm BITTER!!

[skhadenuf]

Kinda hilarious but not that the Conservatives bitch and complain about the high admin cost and incompetance of the CWB,(rightfully so), and told us farmers they'd scrap this incompetant and costly joke of a CAIS program, yet they not only kept it but made it worse. I hear now you are penalized for being so called late with forms wow if we penalized them for latenesss or incompetance could you imagine?
Would imagine grain is same as cattle, some imaginary number is used at the start and end of the year for price. Then you sell your grain later the next year for all kinds of different prices so to truly make the numbers for the year mean something you would have to do corrections to your application for the preceding year as you sold your grain or animals at a different price. Could you imagine the paper shuffle.
Also you estimate bushels for how much fed spoiled and actually in piles etc. is anyone going back and changing all these numbers? With livestock you guess weights age etc. unless you weigh every animal on your farm year start and end there is no fu$$$$$s way those numbers are anywhere accurate and again do you cattle sheep and other livestock guys amend your applications once the livestock is sold?
The move to Melville is just another way for the MP to buy his seat all those employees for a joke program, kinda like the Yankees buying their championship only the MP is using our money not his own.

[Burbert]

It was explained to me, that agstability isn't paying, cause we've had so many rotten years in ag recently. Since payout is based on averages, it will no longer pay. Hence it is considered a Conservative success. In fact lots of the other programs in gov't are looking at how good agstability is. Make work project fer friends of the government, for instance. Lottsa hig pay jobs for little old ladies that love to say "No" and love to put things off. Yup agstability, its the only way to go, finally a program that does nothing for anyone, talk about fairness in gov't....

[kato]

It's my opinion that these programs are all intentionally designed to fail. This way, the government can blast off press releases saying how many good income assistance programs are available to cash strapped agriculture, while not having to actually pay anything out.

Now the newest life saving program is the Advance Payments Program. This is even better! They can blast off more press releases all about how many millions and millions of dollars are accessible to farmers, while never mentioning that it's our own money we're getting, and that it will all go right back to the government when the calves are sold... assuming they're sold for more than the advance.

Geezzzzzzzzz................

[grassfarmer]

Agree in principle on the CAIS,Agri-CRAP programs - complete waste of time mostly. I do like the Advance Payments Program though, the Government will lend me interest free money - the banks won't so I think if you manage it well it is an asset to running a business in the current climate.

[kato]

I have no problem with the program. What I don't like is the government letting on to the general public that they are giving us all these millions of dollars, when in fact they are giving us interest free repayable loans in the lowest interest rate climate since the Great Depression. The forgiven interest on these loans is a small investment by comparison to a properly funded income protection program like most other countries have.

IMO, in a business climate where pretty much all the hardship we've put up with for the past 7 or so years have been caused by various forms of governmental bungling, and protectionist antics over which we have no influence, a proper income protection program is not an unreasonable request. These are not true market ups and downs we've been dealing with. They are the fallout from a vast number of political influences that have nothing to do with the day to day management of a farm.

I guess the bottom line is that those in power, who are supposed to be watching out for the welfare of the citizens of this country have dropped the ball. And we are expected to pay for it.

[smcgrath76]

I like the idea of the Advance Payment
Program. It is not a lot better than
some of the feeder associations though.
the other thing that concerned us was
that the security is held against your
CAIS account. I think a bank is a lot
better to have calling your loans than
Revenue Canada. That said it is
actually one of the more useful risk
management tools in their suite of
programs, when most beef producers are
trying to firmly protect our negative
margins.

[frustrated1]

Keep in mind they will take any means they can to claw back an overpayment. Despite being told not to worry, THEY eventually decided they'd given me too much. Actually AFSC decided that anything they'd given me since 2003 was too much and now want it all back plus interest. Here's a kick in the groin. Due to drought we'll be collecting a large crop insurance cheque. Or should be. Guess who gets paid first? CAIS. period. So now we have little crop and a precious small crop insurance cheque in a year when we can least afford it. Yes, I'm BITTER!! And being an interm payment, it was only half of what I was projected to get in the first place. Did I mention I was bitter?

[kato]

If it's any consolation, I think it's safe to say that we're all bitter for, and along side you. It's enough to keep a person up at night worrying about paying the bills without having to worry about repaying a program that is as undependable as this one.

I think I'd be making an appointment to see someone with some clout. Start with your local MP, and MLA. I wouldn't just write or call either, I'd walk in the office and sit down at their desk. Make them look me in the eye and say they won't help. Then maybe a call to the local TV station wouldn't hurt, if that hasn't gone broke too, like ours has.

This just isn't right. It would make a good news story, and I would bet the right media would jump on it.

If I've learned anything since 2003, it's that unless you make some noise and stick up for yourself no one else will do it for you. We've got to take care of ourselves nowadays.

We're rooting for you.

[skhadenuf]

Man there sure are alot of paybacks goin on, not much paid out to start. Talked to an adjuster the other day and his sources say the reason for the move to melville is that there are a shit load of reviews taking place tons of numbers don't match crop insurance numbers so you either gonna get raked over by cais or crop insurance cops, both programs good for shit and now gonna harrass people.
Is there any where published how much cais paid out each year and how much is now clawed back ?
Us farmers are a bunch of idiots to let this bullshit go on It's past time that more than just individuals fight for themselves, after harvest here plain and simply demand cais shut down totally fix up crop insurance clean house and get at it.

[burnt]

Scary, scary stories. We received an Agristability payment this fall which took me completely by surprise. More by its appearance in our mailbox than by its size. We deposited it knowing full well that it could be clawed back in the future. But trust me, if they do, it will make major headlines.

[Hopperbin]

Why would you be surprised you got a payment? Did you not fill out the forms?
Did your accountant not inform you?

[wd40]

Bandades all

Here's the root problem!

40 yrs ago – PRIVATE ENTERPRISE = PRICE DISCOVERY ( on both sides of the farm gate).
No safety net programs.
20 Yrs. ago – Industry leadership began talking about the “NEED” for CONSOLDATION.
CONSOLDATION began (in all of Agriculture) [MUST have been a line taught to graduate students in Ag Economics]
PRICE DISCOVERY BEGAN TO ERODE SAFETY NET – programs began showing up.
10 Yrs ago – “PRICE DISCOVERY” issues began to be discussed and debated at industry meetings.
SAFTY NET PROGRAMS – biggest beneficiary the big feedlots and packers. Both say they cannot survive without (case in point the packers last week asked the Feds for another 25M.)
TODAY: CORPORATE FACISM PRICE SUPPORT PROGRAMS = NO PRICE DISCOVERY ( on either side of the farm gate in all Ag. sectors)
PRIVATE ENTERPRISE - gone the way of the DODO bird.
Corporate control can’t sustain itself without Govt. bail outs, tax concessions, or just plain concessions.
The result, industry control is devoid of social conscience. What’s worse is that we (Canada) lose the value of “Value Added” benefits and spin offs, ship raw product, and are held hostage to foreign imports, the road that leads us to a 3rd. world country.

Private Enterprise: is defined (check out the internet) “Business governed by the laws of supply and demand, not restrained by government interference, regulation or subsidy, also called free market”.

Supply and demand no longer affect the market.

Is that the picture when we look out across the farm gate?
So friends in agriculture we need to unify in one voice, aim at a future goal, and take back our industries. Our tax dollars have bailed out the packing plant industry to the place where we own the plants by default. Let’s go take possession!

[burnt]

Hopperbin - the reason for the surprise was that by our calculations, we were not in line for a payment. The payment was triggered by their strange juggling of the figures. Hence the cause for concern about a future clawback. A friend of mine received a whopping big payment one year, only to have 90% of it clawed back the following year. That kinda hurts when the money is spent and gone.