What will save this turn of cattle feeding?

[grassfarmer]

And I think you are missing the point - if we did have 6 (but preferably 10 )packers in Canada and people ate the same amount of beef producers might be substantially better off due to some competition in the marketplace. Conversely if we increase meat consumption and only have 2 packers, or one, the benefits will not accrue to the producer.

The problem that affects us producers most is not declining demand for beef but our declining share of retail dollar. When our share dropped from 24% to 16%(and not likely lower still)in a space of about eight years that lost us substantially more money than an overall decline in beef sales.

When you talk of declining beef demand where are you talking about anyway? N. America? By all accounts the world demand for beef is increasing as people become more affluent in developing countries. I thought Canada aspired to be a beef exporting nation? Truth is it does but the beef is largely kept captive on this continent by the packer monopolies influence over Government, CFIA/USDA and cattle organisations. Once again the stupididy of targeting the US as our "best" and "only" beef market comes back to bite us in the ass.

"Declining beef consumption" - another false cause of the cattle crisis.

[perfecho]

Shaney, packers speak with forked tongue....they are not going to let a good thing get away on them!!! It's their job!
Why is it that some of us make damn good money on "Farm Of Origin Labelled beef".....Kato, this is for you...FOOL..not COOL ;-).....and yet we cannot process nearly as efficiently as the big guys can.

Remember when Shirley said " I had coffee with the majors and they assured me they weren't making much off of BSE animals"...(not word for word, but certainly the jist of it)...and later the Feds, after major hassle in getting processors to open books, found to have profits increase over 600%.

So you believe, who.......?

[perfecho]

And as GF pointed out, it it were truly an oversupply, retail prices would lower to move "more" in a true free market system........could it be that both producers and consumers would benefit from a competative market?

[shaney]

In my opinion lack of packers is an issue but not
whats hurting the industry right now.

By the way if the Canadian meat packing business
is so lucrative why did Tyson sell Lakeside?

The industry is really unhealthy and changes are
needed. But ask your self if we had 10 domestic
packers would we be saved from $250 per head
feeding losses right now? Or would the cow kill be
slowed?

[vagabonddreamer]

well...prolly if you look at it closely...you will see the retail stores are actually subsidiaries of the companies that own the packers...pretty much tyson and cargill own anything to do with food in north america....so...i guess they can decide who will make the profit at any given time...

i am curious though Shaney...we know that as producers WE arent making money...and if the packers and the feedlots arent making money...who IS making money when you look at the price of beef in the stores?? vs

[blackjack]

That seems like a fair question vs.Shaney what part of the beef industry are you in? Do you think it has been fair for ranchers to lose thousands and thousands dollars of equity? Shaney let the packer go broke beleive me someone will be there to start a new one.Thats how true capitalism should work.Not thousands of taxpayers dollars to propt up their bs.

[grassfarmer]

"if the Canadian meat packing business
is so lucrative why did Tyson sell Lakeside?"
a. because they were running under capacity both here and in the US.
b. because they could use their US capacity to kill Canadian cattle if they want to.
c. they are less likely to want to due to COOL.
d. they had a buyer.
I would put all these reasons ahead of lack of profitability.


If we had 10 packers now and were able to increase the producer sale of the retail dollar from 16% back to the 24% it was in 1999 it would raise fed cattle prices $550 per animal - money that could and should be spread between cow/calf and feedlot operators. Only by having competition could producers access this money. Reaching new export markets or marketing more beef using the existing processing channels will not help producers because there is no trickle down effect. That is the cost of having no competition.

[grassfarmer]

Perfecho - I don't remember Shirley's quote re the packers but I believe Minister Ritz told the NFU this summer that they were "exaggerating the problems of the beef sector - he had spoken to Brian Nilsson and things were OK"
You are mistaken on the Federal inquiry looking at the packers books though - they never did get to see those books. It's time we had that enquiry again though to find where the money goes.

I repeat our own experience - paying over $550 to get 600lb carcases cut, wrapped and delivered leaves us over $400 a head better off than selling commodity fed cattle. And we sell our beef for less than the Canadian average retail price of beef.

Where does the money go Shaney?

[perfecho]

GF: I remember the radio interview with Shirley…..it bugged me then, it bugs me now. Have included some links and quotes following……you reinforced my msg to Shaney about the margins on local….FOOL…..(Luv my Farm Of Origin Label)

http://cmte.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/committee/381/agri/reports/rp2146861/AGRI_Rpt10/AGRI_Rpt10-e.pdf

FINAL REPORT: FINANCIAL ANALYSIS RELATIVE TO MEAT PACKING COMPANIES IN THE CONTEXT OF THE BSE CRISIS OF 2003
Report of the Standing Committee on
Agriculture and Agri-Food

“On a year-over-year basis, the net profit in 2003 was 95% higher than 2002, and for the six months ended June 30, 2004, was 620% higher than the same period in 2002”
http://www.albertaviews.ab.ca/issues/2005/janfeb05/janfeb05slaughterhousedrive.pdf
It took months for the truth to emerge, but it turned out they were right. In April 2004, an all-party parliamentary committee in Ottawa investigating allegations of price gouging found Lakeside Packers, Cargill Foods and XL Foods—which together process more than 90 per cent of Alberta’s beef—in contempt of Parliament for refusing to open their books. The companies eventually showed the Alberta government their financial statements, and last July the province’s auditor general, Fred Dunn, released a report confirming that profit (before interest and taxes) at the three big packers jumped 281 per cent after May 2003. The big three made $79 a head before the mad cow crisis began and $216 a head afterward.
Packers also received much of the $402-million in BSE aid distributed in Alberta as of June 2004. Why? Because they had taken advantage of the buyer’s market created by BSE and now own most of the province’s cattle. Alberta’s agriculture minister at the time, Shirley McClellan, defended the results, saying “It’s ‘Gee you paid the big guys,’ and ‘Gee the little guy didn’t get much.’ But you know what? The little guy didn’t lose much, either.

http://lists.iatp.org/listarchive/archive.cfm?id=95298
(another link for perusal)

Forget which link, but you get the jist….....
March 3: Klein, pressed by reporters on why his government blocked Alberta's auditor general from investigating allegations of meat packer price gouging, storms out of his news conference, saying: "I've had enough of this crap."

[grassfarmer]

I think that article you posted rather blurs what really happened perfecho. The federal investigation that found the packers in contempt for not opening their books never did extract one cent from the said packers as an election came along and they were let off the hook. They never did open their books.

The Alberta inquiry was a different one based on different information and as far as I know the packers did not open their books to the AB inquiry either. The AB inquiry was a joke anyway - the Government basically handed the findings they wanted to hear to the inquirer and asked them to formulate appropriate questions and parameters to justify the favored conclusions.

I well remember the announcement of the AB inquiry though - Shirley sitting next to a smug Arno Doerksen. I see his quote from the article you posted - "Alberta Beef Producers chairman Arno Doerksen, whose organization represents the province’s ranchers, is reluctant to criticize the large packing companies."
And some people still want (now MLA) Doerksen to be the next AG minister?

[perfecho]

The bottom line to all of this, and I guess my previous posts, is we have to be involved.......not at the end of a shoe string that everyone else is slinging. Producers need to speak, educate consumers, (they all think we get subsidy cheques monthly) and seal our own fate....some of us are with "FOOL"...;-)....but it does not take in the majority of production.

[kato]

"if the Canadian meat packing business
is so lucrative why did Tyson sell Lakeside?"

Good question. But another good question would be "if the Canadian meat packing business is not making money, how did Nilsson's afford to buy it?"

Don't worry, there's money out there.