Parliament shut down again.

[kato]

We're way on board on that one already. BTW, any news?

[rkaiser]

The only news is that Cam and his crew are moving ahead with no support from industry. Can't blame them either. How can industry groups lobby government for assistance and sue the same government at the same time.

[kato]

What I'm getting here is that government has written us off, and we are writing ourselves off as well. That would explain why our industry is dying and no one says a word.

Now how sad is that? What a shame.

If our numbers drop far enough we will lose at least one big packer, and that will be the last nail in the coffin. As much as producers like to complain about the few packers we have, imagine a world with only ONE bidder to buy your cattle? As bad as the non-competition issues are now, believe it or not they can still get worse.

One fine morning Canadian consumers are going to wake up and find that unless they personally know a cattle producer, they have no choice but to buy imported beef.

Now how sad is that? What a shame.

[kato]

Looks like we're both on line at the same time.

This is the problem our producer organizations face with a lot of our issues. If they criticize the government too much, they will not get back in the door. They will be marginalized and put down much like the NFU is now. They can see the way the government tries to portray the NFU as a bunch of radicals, mainly because they keep coming out with research that comes too close to the mark. Far easier to insult and try and dismiss anyone who puts serious questions and concerns to them, than to address the concerns. Our mainstream groups don't want to fall into that, so they walk carefully.

I guess it's up to producers themselves, who are speaking for themselves to all get together and voice their opinions, with no official organizations involved.

The problem is, are they too beat down and worn out to do it? I'm starting to think they are.

[sagewood]

Just my thoughts, but kato I agree--the industry is getting old--young people are not much interested in working 24/7 and having to subsidize their efforts. To say that we are beaten down is an understatement and for sure true--BSE hit, then we still have to fight the COOL gang down south, our own government (doesn't matter which party is in power) is tired of us (I believe)and there are just too many of us creeping up in years and lacking the money, desire, or energy to fight back. It is easier to cash out now--take what one can get and tell stories about 'the good old days'. Take a look at what is happening in Argentina. The government there has shut off any of their European exports b/c the Argentinians cannot feed their own population--and they are big beef eaters. The ranchers there are outraged b/c the export market was the only thing that was still paying them a bit of a profit. If a huge beef producing country like Argentina cannot keep its ranchers prosperous and has no other solution, then what hope is there for the beef industry in Canada? I predict that we will loose our packing industry--it is about done for now--and we will be eating corn-fed, imported American beef at inflated U.S. dollar prices. Sadly we will become what Europe is today and has been for some time--a five pound roast will cost a fortune and be mostly unheard of and should someone actually have one--it will feed 20 people. It will be a special occasion when this happens for those lucky few who get to eat it. I don't think that suing the government will get far. Let's face it--they have bigger lawyers and have more money and can drag a lawsuit out forever--the only winners in this scenario will once again be the lawyers. As much as I wish Cam success, I don't like his chances. I don't think that the Canadian consuming public gives a darn--as long as their food is abundant and cheap they are happy. They will point the finger of condemnation back at the ranchers of this era and ask 'why didn't you do more--why didn't you tell us?' My answer to them at the time will be that 'I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure that what you heard is what I meant!!!"

[skhadenuf]

The only way things will change is if we farmers grain cattle hogs whatever let all political parties know that our vote is not to be taken for granted. That's what is happenning here too many conservatives simply voting conservative no matter what so why would they do anything good for us. They are as useless if not more so than any liberal government in regards to agriculture yet what is it your pride standing in the way of saying so, Do Little Ditz what has he done???????? Oh yeah moving Cais to sask wow how brilliant now we're saved. Oh yeah improved Cais now if you don't put your money up front into agriinstability you don't get the government share, Gee thanks alot and again how brilliant, 2 cattlemen younger families next to me didn't have the cash so missed the deadline and no money mean while some that don't need it gettin a free be.
Like I overheard the other day Conservatives = Rich man's party ( bought off son of a ******* no different and certainly no better than any other party so why the blind support?)

[cpallett]

Well sagewood, I am forced to agree with much of what you have to say. I may have a more favourable view of our chances, but that is probably a result of a combination of inside information and to-the-bone commitment, sprinkled with a touch of quixotism.

Whether Minister Ritz is willing to admit it or not, the long term plan appears to be to allow attrition to cut back the industry to the point where Canadian producers are supplying domestic needs only. That means an awful lot of families out of the business. Then the government can institute a Beef Marketing Board and fully regulate the industry. Yes, supply management. Of what little is left. Not a pretty picture, but strikes me as inevitable if the political neglect of the plight of Canadian cattle producers continues.

I also agree with Kato that the time to make a concerted effort to get on the politicians' radar is now. Right now.

Seems to me that the Feds have nothing to lose and much to gain by agreeing to appoint a retired Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada to mediate, as they did with the Residential Schools class action. The Feds would gain political credit with not only cattle producers, but urbanites as well (at 92% approval, farming is the most respected and trusted profession in Canada - believe it or not).

An independent mediator would also provide an independent professional view of the merits of the BSE class action. Right now the politicians are getting their opinions on the case from the very organizations accused. Sort of like asking the thief to investigate the robbery. Makes the results of the investigation rather predictable, don't you think? One would hope the politicians would want to have an independent opinion, especially considering the stakes.

Mediation is not binding, the point being to explore whether a jointly agreed settlement proposal can be achieved. Any proposal would have to be approved by Cabinet in any event, so there is really no commitment by the Feds, except to the process, and thus no risk. Should the Feds decide to accept any proposal that comes from mediation, they would certainly have lots of justification considering the ability, reputation and respect of the mediator. Of course, maybe grassfarmer is right, and the mediator will tell us to just go away. That would save time and expense and free up resources now, rather than having this thing drag on for years.

Should the Feds decide to settle, it is our view that not only would they be redressing failures of past governments and providing help to an industry that was (and is) the backbone of Canadian agriculture, they would also be providing the most effective economic stimulus package possible.

We all know that a cattle producer would rather drink his or her own bile than pay taxes. If the settlement payout is taxable, it will hit the ground running, to say the least. Either in paying down debt (which frees up credit) or spent on infrastructure (which stimulates the economy). Plus, any settlement funds are not countervailable under the rules of NAFTA, GATT or WTO. Nice touch.

Yes, the Feds can rag the puck for years if they choose to do so. In our view the correct moral, political and national interest thing to do would be to sit down and explore the validity of both the law and the evidence presented in a mediation setting.

Makes so much sense that the cynic in me says it will never happen. On the other hand, the unyielding faith in me says it will.

[kato]

Thanks for the input. Thanks for not forgetting us. At least someone is thinking about us, besides ourselves.

I agree on the supply management scenario. If we reduce to where we only supply Canada's needs, we will for sure only have one packer left. That will make supply management the only alternative if we want to stay in business.

I find it amazing that the government officials are running around the world pounding on doors to open new export markets, while the supply system to provide the beef for those markets is collapsing.

The operation was a success, but the patient died.

[rkaiser]

Sorry Cam, but I don't see the supply management thing in my quixtal quixotismal ball.

What the hell is quixsotism anywhooo?

Anything we can do to push the mediation thing?

[rkaiser]

Awesome -- explains my life LOL

Quixotism (English pronunciation: /kwɪˈksɒtizm̩/) is impracticality in pursuit of ideals, especially those ideals manifested by rash, lofty and romantic ideas or extravagantly chivalrous action.[1] It also serves to describe an idealism without regard to practicality. An impulsive person or act might be regarded as quixotic.

Quixotism is usually related to "over-idealism", meaning an idealism that doesn't take consequence or absurdity into account. It is also related to naïve romanticism and to utopianism.