grazing Canada Thistle

[tman]

I'm interested to read about people's experience about grazing (intensively probably) their pastures to control Canada Thistle. If I remember correctly, grassfarmer has done this but I can't remember any of the details.

I'm trying to rent a grain farmers' pasture since they sold off their cow herd last year. They told me that they want to spray the Canada thistle before any cattle go in it. I peaked his interest when I told him that I read about ranchers controlling thistle by grazing the pastures properly.

Any info will be much appreciated.

[grassfarmer]

It definitely works for us tman but I can't say it was a thing we really planned. I think it is a byproduct of having a herd of cattle that are adapted to a certain type of foraging. You need to have thistle as a part of a wide range of forbs and grasses at a palatable stage to get them interested. You see countless pastures where the grass is chewed off at ground level but the thistles are still sticking up ungrazed. You can't starve cattle into eating thistles but if you have a lush pasture with thistles in it they will eat them - crazy as it sounds.
I suspect exotic breed cattle are the least likely to eat thistles - same with slough grass. Common British breeds like Angus might eat them but the rarer British breeds with Luing Galloway, Highland influence are the most likely to eat strange plants. They seem to prefer the diversity in their diets. Hope that helps, if you have more questions ask away.

[tman]

I won't have a choice in the cattle. If I get the pasture, I'll be getting cattle to custom graze. I'll also be getting stocker cattle since the potential for greater profit is from them rather than cow-calf pairs. Any comments about stockers vs cows for grazing the thistle?

I also remember reading (I think in the Stockman Grass Farmer) about guys spraying molases or something on the thistle to make it more palatable. Have you done anything like that?

Thanks

[wilagro]

Grazing mostly thistle is a POOR practice. The pay-back will never equal proper forage. Control of thistle...best results from spraying...follow the recommendations from the Round-Up or equivalent manufacturer.

[grassfarmer]

tman,
I think your chances of getting uneducated yearlings to eat thistles are slim to none. My yearlings will eat lush ones but only because they leaned it from their mothers as calves.
I believe the molasses works but have never tried it - again I expect it would be easier with cows than yearlings.
I'm confused at the owners desire to treat the thistles "before the cattle go in" - if you wait till the thistles are ready to spray it will be well through the grazing season won't it?

Wilagro - who said anything about grazing mostly thistles? I have less thistles than most people because my cows eat them and I manage my grass. I could argue the feed value of the thistle versus "proper forage" - thistle is around the same feed value as alfalfa with about 17% protein and fairly mineral rich because they are drawing nutrients up from a deeper level than grass due to their tap roots.
The one thing that I think will have a poor payback is spraying. Every time you do it you are simplifying the plant community and handing the aggressive invaders (like thistle) an advantage. Spraying now will guarantee the need to do it again in the future. I'd rather have my cows control the problem than Monsanto - my cows work for my benefit not against it.

[wade]

Sometimes mowing at the proper staging will help thinout,setback or maybe control them.

[mcfarms]

We have grazed pastures throughout the season and then used a weed wiper in early August to control the Thistles. it worked very very nicely. Alot of county's had weed wipers floating around at one time.

[rook]

this doesn't really address your issue but I've heard donkeys readily graze thistle

[tman]

Grassfarmer,
Yes, I agree with you about the timing of the thistle. The owner is a very sharp grain farmer so I'm not sure of his thinking. But if I give him this point, it might help me get his pasture. He said that there'll probably be some time to graze later in the year after spraying. I think he just has it turned around.

I've come across a few other grazers in western Canada who don't consider Canada thistle to be a problem when grazed properly. I met a very smart rancher/grazer now small feedlot owner in Nebraska this past winter who successfully controlled Leafy Spurge on his former ranch by mainly grazing. He has spoken a few times across the States at conferences right after someone with 3 letters behind his name did, saying that cattle wont' eat Leafy Spurge. Then this rancher gets up and says, yes cattle do eat it when it's done right.

Rook,
do you know of a herd of donkeys that someone wants custom grazed for them? ha ha. I'm actually not cemented into grazing just cattle, but they are usually the easiest to find.

[ken.ziegler]

The University of Alberta did some work on this very subject about 10 years ago near Rimbey Alberta grazing cows on a pasture that was thick with thistles. They measured the changes in thistle population with varying degrees of grazing pressure. The research results can be found on www.foragebeef.ca under pasture management - weed control.

[grassfarmer]

Could you post a link to the article Ken? It wasn't immediately obvious to me which article you were highlighting.
Thanks.

[brokenhill]

The following is an article on one producer's experience in grazing Canada thistle. It's not scientific but does provide some practical insight. Thanks.

http://www.holisticmanagement.org/n9/Education/InPractice_Archives/Keen_on_Grass.pdf

[wilagro]

grassfarmer: You do it your way and I will do it mine. I got a 99% kill by spraying a bad infestation of thistle in late August with a 2 litre to the acre application of Roundup and tillage three weeks later. You have to follow the manufacturers suggestions or yes you will never eliminate it.

My cattle would not eat thistle except in the drought years when there NOTHING else for them to eat.

I would say that I was very happy to eliminate the problem and can produce far more forage from clean land.

[littledoggie]

Thistle isn't a big problem for us but the odd patch appears. We put a salt block on any new patch we find and the cows tend to pulverize it out of existence.

[grassfarmer]

Each to their own method Wilagro. Spraying followed by tillage seems an unnecessary expense to me when a herd of trained cows would eat them and benefit from the nutrition in the process.
You are still only treating a symptom not the problem with the Monsanto and metal approach.
With proper grazing management we can treat both at the same time and the only cost is the management time.

As littledoggie suggests compaction is an excellent way to kill out small patches of thistle.