Feeding calves?

[TOM4CWB]

Steve,

I agree with you about the bread.

Besides if I really was offended I could just use my own mill and bread maker, and that 9 cents of wheat, and a little yeast and power, presto I can make a litte money in my own kitchen.

And almost any other Canadian can do the same.....

I can only change my own operation and make it more efficient, but unfortunately the CWB by law is forced upon me, therefore I must try to change it as well....

Steve, wouldn't you agree that I should be able to sell my own wheat,not useing any CWB services or elevator grain handling systems, without being forced to deal with the CWB system///

I can mill, mix and bake, and then eat a loaf of bread produced on my farm without CWB interference, why can't I sell my wheat witrhout their unwanted help?????

[Steve]

Tom4CWB

Yes we need changes in the CWB performance and they will come about in time, but because of Government bureaucracy it takes longer. The reason I am saying that change is on the way, because we see deregulations in other industries.

I think we should have patience with changes and this would give some people time to understand them a little better.

There are a lot more farmers to change, then to deregulate an industry with just a few large corporations. It is hard to make an old horse do new tricks but do we know if the new ones are much better.

By reading between the lines in most of your comments I would say your farming operation is successful even with the present CWB performance, but keep after them and changes will come.

Steve

[ianben]

Hi Steve
You are giving sound advice here.
I too try to follow a good rotation and market in an orderly way not holding out for the last dollar.
I do feel however there is perhaps a better way to market today which would help smooth out the highs and lows of both production and price and give EVERYONE in the food chain a better deal.
I also feel sorry for the guys we buy from how do they know how many combines tractors chemicals to produce when our demand is so irratic.
They fix prices are prepared to hold stocks and supply demand which they then replace.
This is how I would love to operate.
Toms futures options will never achieve this with or without the CWB. In fact I think they make the highs higher and the lows lower.
Why is a 19th century system the only way to market today?
I hate wingeing, takeing government handouts, producing more in an over supplied market.
Just show me a better way.
I dont believe old dogs could not learn new tricks especially ones that help everyones bottom line.

Regards Ian

[Steve]

Ton4CWB

My reply to your statement, if we outright refuse to supply, substitution will often not give us another chance.

I believe if you have a good product don’t be afraid to ask the right price for it. We can even use Safeway store as an example they don’t change their price for every customer that comes into the store because they have good products to sell. They know good customers will be back for quality and service that Safeway provides. We can apply this system to our domestic sales but need to modify it for export.

Tom! you really don’t sell any different because when you pre-price on the futures or buy options you are also setting a price and that means your not going to sell below production cost.

If you create a shortage or a surplus the market price will fluctuate at the same rate beyond your control, therefore you better be prepared to watch the market daily. That is why we should try and control production. Most farmers don’t want to add more stress by sitting at the marketing table every day.

I trusted people to market my grain. That gave me time to get frustrated on the golf course because my golf ball is as predictable as grain prices.

Your next statement; that I should be able to sell my wheat not using the CWB services or elevator handling systems, therefore you are also implying too use producer cars.

You better slow down on this one, because if every farmer used the same sales approach what would happen to your good partners that you always refer too.

[ianben]

Steve
I dont believe we can control production
only Mother Nature can do that for us.
This is who is in control today; your CWB, Toms futures, my subsidies, all trying to tame her and failing miserablly.
We could learn from Safeway though.
Fix a fair price.( middle of historic high /lows)
Put it on the shelf(list it on the internet)
Keep the shelves full(hold stock)
Monitor competitors prices and services and use these to fix price.(do not try to be the lowest priced producer every time.)
Keep customers happy(Stable prices do make for happy customers I am sure.)

We cant control production but we must be able to market better!!!

Regards Ian

[TOM4CWB]

Steve,

I was not talking about using ANY Canadian grain handling, marketing or grading services.

I simply need to load my truck and take it to the buyer, if that be a processing plant or a US buyer that has nothing to do with the Canadian system.

Because my grain will even be graded with a US grade and not be able to claim the Canadian quality advantage, I believe this would be fair, infact in the 1950's the CWB allowed this type of transaction without the buy-back!!

We used to have an old saying in my marketing courses and seminars, If we don't sell some grain, then the price can't go higher later in the marketing year. Substitution is the reason why this is true, particularily in today's world of oilseeds!

For the people that have been working on marketing choice, change at the CWB seems to be like watching a glacier melt!!!

Thankyou for your kind words Steve, the thing that hurts me the most is to see a number of farmers in their 40's that would be still farming, if the CWB changes could bring changes particularily on the Cash Flow side.

When the bank pulls the plug and gives 10 days to sell everything, the CWB system is difficult to deal with!

[Steve]

Hi Ian

Thanks for your good comments and hope you had a better than average year.

I retired coming on two years but deferred most of my canola sales to January of 2002, so I think Revenue Canada will class me as a farmer for one more year. My golfing came to a halt with the weather so I decided to join you farmers on the net. I hope my comments don’t offend anyone because I enjoy reading everybody’s views and like to add my two cents.

I hope this cold weather will get more people back on the net.

Regards Steve.

[Steve]

The cold weather has driven me to the house. This computer is quite the little rig isn't it. I have read all your comments and find them very interesting. But I find all your marketing views are antiquated 19th and 20th century ways to market commotidies. Ianben has the most forward thinking ideas on how to better market our grains. I know all of you believe that the commotities market is the only way to set a price. I believe their are better and simipler ways of pricing that are possibly more stable and more profitable for farms. Lets remove the speculator from our commotity market and replace it with a buyer takes delivery and a seller makes delivery on a sale. This would be a true supply and demand market. Now I don't want to hear all about how us farmers can farm these speculators and all the other so called good points about the exsisting market(which is manipulative}. Lets hear some clear thinking on how to change our commotities market to the benefit of farmers instead of favouring buyers of our product. Spectulators done give a damn where the price is, just that it is going up and then down. Everyone lets try to dream up a better way to market. Thats why this computer was invented someone or a lot of someones figured it out to better our lot in life. Heres to better thinking The Kernel.

[TOM4CWB]

Kernel,

You must have taken your growly speculator shot before you wrote the last spot!!

Is not someone who lays their money down, and creates an opportunity for everyone, a person to be respected and encouraged?

If any of us knew the future... but the fact is that none of us do!!!

No one has a gun to your head and forces you to sell when the prices fluctuate lower than your expected levels kernel, so what thorn got under your saddle kernel?

[ianben]

Thank-you kernel, love the name!!
Toms been on this marketing course and he really believes he can beat the system.
Perhaps with dedication and effort he can but it is not providing the service today it was invented for.
Stable prices and reliable supply.
I see a better way, using this fantastic medium the internet.
I hope you see it too!
Not sure how we get there from where we are today.
Still too many horsemen out there saying that new fangle tractor will never catch on.
I'm sure Tom has a tractor bet he even zero-tills and grows GM canola.
There is no better way to market though!!
Once he's free of the CWB of course.
More individuals in the market, higher highs, lower lows.
Just what we need!!!

Regards Ian

[Steve]

To all

I will not specify what comments are directed to individuals but here they come.

I don’t believe that our grain marketing is outdated and we are seeing many changes because of globalization. These were some suggestions: we should be able to load our truck and deliver directly to the processor and I agree but only to the domestic market.

I think that most of us realize that the USA and Canada free trade agreement is quite fragile because of the population difference. Just stop and think if you antagonize the big giant, they can turnaround and flood our grain market to the extent that you would give wheat away, just to make room for your new crop. You better believe it just look what they did to our softwood market.

The commodity marketing exchange is a good place for seller and buyer to meet for many reasons. In this place you advertise, sell, buy, pay and collect money.

Now lets look at some do it alone systems. How are you going to collect your money from some foreign country on grain sales and or rectify a dispute at the border crossing? I know there are brokers, but that is not always free of problems and besides at any time the border guard can tie up your load for days.

We need large grain companies and or the CWB to handle all export transactions because they pay the farmer at the delivery point and that relieves him from any export liabilities.

The large corporations trade on the commodity exchange or sell direct to buyers. So lets stop and realize that we need this middleman and it will cost us elevation also transportation charges.

[TOM4CWB]

Steve,

Take a look at the special crops, beans used to be the PNW specialty, now the prairies dwarf the PNW production. Peas and Lentils the same.

I don't see the US stoping trade here, the same as Canola, no border controls either.

What about Oats at $3.50/bu, no CWB, many small companies, marketing choice and no US border action on Oats!!!

The CWB has done a really good job of fooling you folks!

If someone can come up with a fair way to regulate supply, without billions of dollars in supply management quotas, and a system that can anticipate shortages like the futures can and do now, let me know.

How many people are you folks willing to starve to get a "fair" price for your produce?

I know that is a hard question, but it is one that needs to be asked.

Now I don't say I ever beat the market, and I do use co-operative pooling systems outside the CWB, as well as the CWB, so please spare me...

Isn't in the end, the freedom to choose the way you and your farm sell the products, at the base of a free, fair, and democratic society?

How does this stop you folks from joining together in a marketing alliance like sunkist oranges or Oceanspray cranberries are marketed!!!

[TOM4CWB]

Lets put all products on the commotities market then Tom. Everything that is sold as the result of production or manufacturing. All the items in Safeway and Canadian Tire should ride the wave of speculators. I then could maybe pick a better time to buy a cheaper can of beans or a spark plug. Farming is good. Marketing is the pits. Now skrub your minds clean of the way we have marketed in the past and invent a new way. Tom they really brain washed you at those commotity marketing courses that you took. Think boys think. The Kernel. PS Tom have you sold all your canola yet.

[pandiana]

I like the bread example. It helps to put the complex economics of marketing from primary production to retailing in a package small enough to swallow (pun intended).
I agree with Steve's description of the pressures that exist on the middleman, from unions, to utilities, to urban expansion. However, as I see it, the problem is that, as the costs to the middleman expand, they exert pressure on the entire line of production. This pressure can be relieved in either of two directions; upwards, to increase the retail cost or, downwards, to erode the profit of primary production. The primary producer has no way of ameliorating his rise in costs but must absorb them. Primary producers that have been able to 'add value' to their production by working up the production chain have been better able to offset some of these rising costs.
I realize that this is an oversimplification of a complex problem but I feel that a close look at a few 'trees' might help us analyse the 'forest'.

[Steve]

Pandiana

Thanks for your very good, also diplomatic comments and views.

This confirms my way of thinking that you don’t need a nasty pill before one starts his views or comments, only politician do that on their campaign trail.

I also don’t like to see at CWB or farm chemical information meetings disrupted by some person in the back out of control and calling the speakers liars, crooks and what ever implying their the cause of all his problems.

Regards Steve.