HEAVY HAND OF THE CFIA---UPDATE

[SADIE]

Got time tonight to respond to two people on this thread.

Kato---comment on G Ritz letter is very important here. First I signed a letter last December that I had two journalist work on to perfect for me. Some of you received it on email. It was titled a "plea of help from a victimized Canadian Cattleman. I also met my MP David Anderson in Feb on this regard. If one challanges a Monetary fine this is the #3 option you can take---Letter to the Minister of AG. Taking this to the tribunal hearing you have to put together "expert witness" list and a paper chase. This will be presented as an Enhibit A at the hearing.

The email I posted I removed the 50 CFIA veterinarian email contact that it was also cced to. I am using the Min of Ag as the "scape goat" He is the ultimate boss to all CFIA contacts.

Like I mentioned earlier---"being coached" I have several strategic goals in mind in this purpose. THe 100 practicing veterinary clinics that also got the email under bcc. Where might the future resourse pool come from for their future employement?.

GF---Experience with the National Energy Board Hearings has been great conditioning. THis is another beaurocracy that landowners now have learnt a process in 'Cracking the Nut" a little in their favor.

Testifying under oath at a board hearing give you a great comfort zone. Watching and hearing the lawyer talk of some of the best in Canada.

Learning how to prepare your case working with sharp young lawyers has been great.

Taking my case to an oral tribunal hearing. When you take on a Canadian beaurocratic agency there is no bluffing. I studied all the other cases on the internet and talked to some on the phone.

1st---CFIA throws their evidence at you. It might scare off some farmers, ranchers but more people are learning the game and I am willing to share at future meetings.

2nd---the defendant has a timeline to put together his evidence that he has to share with the other party. THanks to digital pictures---some slhown before my bound copy is twice as thick as CFIAs.

3rd CFIA lawyered up early and tried to ask who my lawyer was. I told CFIA I would represent myself and don't talk to me again. Only at the tribunal hearing.

4th--the defendant gets to pick the place, (Saskatoon), language, and time to do battle----They wanted Feb, May---the longer the time to drag out things keep evolving.

5th--Not using a lawyer gives you great latitude in the hearing room.

6th--CFIA will come in with about 10 people with briefcases and sit at their table---Likely only full of blank paper---Intimadation.

7th--Both parties have to share information and entire witness lists before the hearing.

8th--Your list you try to bring forward EXPERT WITNESSES meaning ones with degrees, Engineer that has taught at universities that wrote a paper etc. Cattleman that sat on the Canadian Cattleman's Assoc as president.

9th Each party will try to discredite the others witness. CFIA will try to ask why each of my witnesses is relevant to the case. All witnesses are sworn under oath and all cross exam and comments are on record.

10th those on record that had an oral hearing are embarised and are their alone in the hearing room.

11th I made my case very big. Build the largest army I could. The media will be present and their will be a press release before this date of June 15.


THe key is to make it to a hearing. IF there is no army and the evidence looks powerfull, in order and neat--an beaurocratic system might try to {make a deal ) so nothing goes on record.



Goals:

1)CFIA has to be made accountable?

2)Not one person knows the entire group of laws that the are in place. Not everyone is "SINGING FROM THE SAME SONG SHEET"

3)CFIA personnel all interpret the laws differently.

4)My case is a monetary fine classified as "minor". There is question and could be some real difficulty if the $$$ can be obtained from a person anyway. My case will be a trial run. I already asked the tribunal body if I could take "Jail time" of work off as public service.

5)My list of "expert witnesses" some are involved at the WESTERN COLLEGE OF VETERINARY MEDICINE.

---WORLD KNOW ANIMAL BEHAVIOR SPECIALIST, ENGINEERING TEAM ON CAMPUS that is looking at work on these tags even using the SYNCOTRON, Past PRes of the CANADIAN CATTLEMANS, No mileage cost to me.

GF if tag retention is great CFIA would be wise to use taxpayers money and bring in an "EXPERT TECHNICAL WITNESS" to the hearing. I will have at least one other Rancher, very witty, great speaker and knows court room edicate beside me.

IF $500.00 is going to come out of my back pocket I want to get some value out of it. I learnt a tonne on preparing this case. I learnt from all of you on your take on this website

[littledoggie]

kato, you said "We should not have to pay for these tags". BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR! If we don't pay for the tag, who then owns the information that goes along with the tag - ex. age verified, weaning date, weaning weight, vaccines given, etc. etc. Bureaucrats can come with all kinds of ideas for information that could be collected. We should all be fighting for the right to own ANY and ALL information that is connected to the RFID tag. And we should be wondering why the CCIA (which was created with producer check-off dollars)is releasing age verified information out the back door.

[SADIE]

Kato--

A couple of responses now to two of your comments.

1)What has happened in Manitoba---Because of my outreaching story I am receiving lots of phone calls for help from other victoms.

Shake down in Manitoba---CFIA if Brandon area came in to an assembly yard---5-6 CFIA trucks and RCMP swad cars show up----cease all the computers and stormed the offices and area.

Leading case originated in Jan 2010 when a producer from Brand had 3-4 cull cows to ship phoned the "assembly yard" and asked if he could---Cold weather he would just bring his RFID tags with him. He Gave them to a yard worker---who Pocketed them. Producer left thinking all is well.

A couple of weeks later the CFIA phones the producer---Told RED WHITE FACE COW was suspecious of cancer eye and would be testing for BSE. TAG ON THE WRONG COW. CFIA stormed the producers place "demanding that someone has to pay" THe threatens to the producer is a fine of $14,000.00.

No charges have been administered yet to either the producer or assembly yard operator.

The producer phoned me ---about 45 in tears last week and another----Cows are all going this fall. On the phone and I have checked with his practicing vet---good top cut cattleman,

Feedyard operator I talked to---Following my story just commented. If they wanted my computer records all CFIA had to do is ask.

2)Tagging loss in your situation---Can I guess that those tags have been in about 2-3 years now and are of the brand of tag that controls 90% of the tagging market?

My entire case will come out ---I conversed with Brad WIldamen yesterday on my perception of the "PROBLEM WITH TAG LOSS" of high nos to some producers and others saying they have a high % of perception.

Brad W. 2009 CCA president and CCIA chair before that. THis evidence will come out during my Cross-examination at the hearing. Huge problem for those tags in those cow-herds as they are in year 3-5.

Enough said for now. Ask all readers to see the Western Producer this week. It is going to get very vocal across the west on the radio

[grassfarmer]

SADIE could you maybe explain the Manitoba case facts because I don't understand what you wrote. What is the offense? You said the producer dropped off some cows along with loose tags at a collection area and the staff there failed to tag the animals.
Later the producer was contacted about one cow getting BSE tested - was the cow his or are you implying his tag had been put on someone elses cow?
Either way what is the problem? If the cow was tagged it met the requirements.

[kato]

Thanks for the info. This story is miles and miles and miles away from the gossip that's going around the neighbourhood. Odds are that I probably know the producer, since it's pretty much a local story here. It will not be the producer who's the subject of the gossip either.

Gossip is a dangerous hobby.

I can however say that the assembly yard in question runs a really good operation. We've dealt with them for years. They handle a lot of cattle, and are very well respected.

What a mess.

[per]

This is really a story about the abuse of power and lack of political will to reel the CFIA in. Being able to track cattle backwards and forwards is important for pinpointing a problem. We have that ability through manifests and a good inspection system as was proven in 2003. The CFIA has taken what could be a great system and blew it up by not exercising any not so common sense what so ever.

[rkaiser]

Even have the MP's scared.... LOL Had a meeting with my local MP yesterday and he was decent to speak with. One of many good things we spoke about was the fear that if the BSE class action suit goes through and slaps the CFIA upside their head, that they would handle things even tighter next time.... LOL ...

Actually that is not all that funny. It is amazing that the politicians can not see that they have the ability to stop this out of control, control freak organisation called the CFIA, and are scared of them themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I see the merit in animal identification like Grassfarmer does. There is no need for Canada to go back to the dark "American ages" as our lofty CCA seems to think. Sounds like they simply want to harmonise with the Yankees and feel that that will make everything fine. Whatever. If we need to to anything, it is to break away and Brand Canada. We can do this with ID --- but proper ID and less gestapo like tactics from the boys who could not make it in the real world of veterinary medicine and settled for a comfy government cheque and a collective ego the size of ----- I don't know what to say.

Oh yes, by the way, our MP could not believe that the CFIA would not allow BSE testing for market access. Didn't even want to go back to that old story as CFIA, CCA and ABP seem to have won that battle hands down...

[grassfarmer]

Don't be fooled too much by the out of control CFIA and the poor politicians powerless to stop it - the CFIA essentially operates as an extension of USDA and the Canadian Government (and Provincials) similarly follow what the US Government dictates. The US Government policies are of course effectively influenced by Corporate interests. It's a mess but that is the system our non-functioning democracy propagates. I think CFIA are a symptom not the root cause of the problem.

[kato]

If my memory serves me right, way back when, after ground zero cow in 1993,there was significant USDA pressure on our government to pretty much do what they did, and downplay the BSE risk, which is what got us into this mess.

Traceability is fine with me, but that means tracing an animal when it changes hands, not when it gets trucked around the farm. I'm pretty sure we all know where our cows are at any given time, so if there's an outbreak and the government needs to know where they are, all they have to do is ask.

It's when they're going in and out of auctions and feedlots and changing ownership that the tracing part should kick in.

It's nobody's business but mine where cow #43 is on Tuesday. I think the government has far more important things to do than follow my cows to the pasture and back. And far more important things to spend our tax dollars on.

[SADIE]

GF & Kato

I stopped in for lunch and will try to clarify. I just revealed two issues that I have been in contact with.

Kato--you are very correct. THe assembly yard is very good, very well run and the operator is a kind nice man doing a good job. He would of given anything CFIA wanted.

THe case that led to this was that a producer had group of cows (black white face) that he delivered, cold weather and gave the buttons to a yard worker. THere was other cows arriving apparently. THe producer left the site.

Apparently there is a button on a different cow.

To date there has been no charges laid to yard operator or producer. THe producer has just heard about "fine threats" via phone conversation. Both people are releaved that my case is building and revealing some real issues in:

WHAT ARE THE LAWS----EVERYONE HAS TO BE SINGING FROM THE SAME SONG SHEET.

WHAT ARE THE INTERPRETATION OF THE LAWS

WHAT AND HOW ARE THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE LAWS.

I can/will only give limited information. THe readers of this are seeing that there is another side of this whole problem arrising.

More to come down the road. At meetings or tribunals.