HEAVY HAND OF THE CFIA---UPDATE

[per]

#1. Transactions can't be slowed down or otherwise diverted because of traceability. Should not have an effect on inter ranch movement.

#2. At the point where they leave one owners operation and possession and Ownership. All the ranchers properties whether rented, leased, community pasture or owned are part of his operation. Ownership and control have to change for possession to change and to consider them in transit.

Of course these are my definitions and will no doubt be interpreted differently by the CFIA and others.

[kato]

per, I agree with you 100%.

[SADIE]

I need to be more specific than that. The cattle liners or trailers are backed up to the load-out shute.

THe cattle have gone through the working alleys and head-gate and put in the holding pen which leads to the load-out shute where the trucks are backing into.

At what point is the responsiblity leasve the hands of the cattle owner?

Are we build a funnel alley and squeeze head gate and after every animal is proceeded (one by one) let it hop onto a trailer????

[grassfarmer]

Playing devils advocate - "#1. Transactions can't be slowed down or otherwise diverted because of traceability."
Doesn't that already happen when the brand inspector has to clip cattle at auction to read brands? I suggest it does but the important thing is whose time is it taking up and who is paying for that time?

[kato]

I think a major problem here, just as much the rules, is over zealous application of the rules.

Do the RCMP stop every car on the road and check everyone's seatbelt? No. Do they pull people's licences for driving five over the speed limit. No.

Why? Because if they really wanted to be right on the letter of the law, they could conceivably spend all their time and all their resources chasing law abiding citizens who make the occasional mistake, while real criminals run free. It's just not a good use of their time. Or our tax money. It's also not good common sense.

Wasn't there just a story out this winter about how the CFIA is missing inspecting a terrific number of loads of imported food? Seems to me there was a huge backlog of work, so the food was just let in without inspection.

Why is there such a backlog? Because apparently there is not enough staff or budget to do the job? Maybe it's not lack of resources, but misuse of them, because so many of the staff are off in the country chasing after broken tags in cattle that are not going anywhere but basically around the block.

[Happytrails]

to gf. Brand inspectors are under no constraints to not impede commerce. To the contrary their role is to halt commerce if there is any question of livestock ownership. To Kato. Of course some common sense should prevail in all matters. To give ID tag traceability a pass because of too strict rule interpretation doesn't work for me. If you stand back and view the forest rather than thinking that removing a few trees will solve the problem I think we will be on the same page.

[grassfarmer]

Kato, "Do the RCMP stop every car on the road and check everyone's seatbelt? No. Do they pull people's licences for driving five over the speed limit. No."

Do they check many cattle for eartag retention? NO. So there is no difference there.
As for not checking loads of beef coming in from the south - that fits with the theory of CFIA being a subordinate of USDA. It will be their mandate to allow US beef in with no impediment, something not reciprocated for cattle heading south.

Happy Trails, my point was that impeding commerce is of no consequence as long as it is not costing the producer time or money as in the case of brand inspection.
I saw EIDs demo'd in the mid 90s in Europe. Reading cattle in and out of an auction with an overhead reader on a single lane alley. Didn't hold up commerce much - they still sold 1000 fat cattle, one at a time, through the auction ring in a regular length of sale day.

[SADIE]

Looking back now it is a good thing I got nailed by the CFIA. Because of my background of "diagnosis solving" in large beef cow herds from 1977-1995 I took it on to get to the bottom of the problem. I went into agribition last fall (esp through the commercial barns where I used to compete) met people and listened to their experiences. I went to the trade booths as well with the tag manufactures and CCIA group. Some who were on my emails ----I reached out and connected to many people.

1)It appears there is a tag retention problem and has been for a long time especially to those that go into community pastures in SasK. Not a tagging facility.

2)One pasture I am in still has a manditory fly tag program as well right by Lake Diefenbaker. That means extra tagging as well each year---Lots of holes.

3) Cows and BUlls can accept 1 or two times tagging but get into the 7-9 year mark there is problems.

4)My witness list is extensive that is why I was given two day hearing. This case might help/change or do something to help those of us in that situatioon.

5)I do have a concern of all the tags that go astray. Evidence of what is happening to them will come out at the hearing.

6)In the areas around Saskatoon the livestock knowledge to many is minimal. Some don't even know CCIA vs CFIA and don't seem to care to learn.

7)PFRA pasture managers are not on the same SONG SHEET TO THE RULES.

8) Still alot of confusion over the CCIA poster that was major advertisement last fall, CCIA and CFIA still squabbling over that.

My case has been put together as a CASE REPORT and will be with Power-point. The western College of Veterinary Medicine is already inquiring about a presentation. FIrst the hearing----Interest now in a radio talk show.

[coppertop]

Maybe this would be another excellent
presentation for the Agricultural Service
Boards to consider for their Convention.

[smcgrath76]

We have noticed higher tag losses in our
2009 calves than in previous years. Same
tag brand, same ear, same person applying
tags.
We always check before shipping anything,
but thanks to Ken's experience, we now
send a signed affidavit with our cattle
that CCIA tags were checked and intact on
all animals on the load, when they left
the end of our loading chute.

[per]

3) Cows and BUlls can accept 1 or two times tagging but get into the 7-9 year mark there is problems.

Keep up the pressure SADIE. I am curious why not go into an old hole? My cows hardly notice when I don't poke a new hole.

[SADIE]

Per---Primary principle in tagging and when you are facing tag-loss. You are not supposed to use an old hole.

When you talk to industry reps and anyone when dealing with tag retention problems those are one of the first questions they ask you.

2---There are several issues when dealing with tag retention.

--tag comes apart (alflex), holes get too large--(necrosis around Male button) this is why you are supposed to dip each button in dis-infectant, backs of buttons break off, stems break off, then comes the strings on bales that catch and tear out tags---some producers argue bales on sides versis bales on end. Personnally I prefer to totally remove strings.

---Since my 10 month investigation there are several producers and more coming aboard all the time that have evidence that they complained to the manufacturer and got new bags of RFID buttons gratus as replacement of faulty buttons. Note that any tag problems you are supposed to contact CCIA directly---This will be one recommendation to come out at this hearing that there has to be an independant complaint centre set up to test these tags on cow-herds independant from CCIA like the Western College of Veterinary Medicine and possible the Turmundy farm research station.

Thankyou for your comments Sean Mcgrath I just got an email from Lee Gunderson from Cattlemen Calgary and their stats from the auction marts have a 5-6% tag retention loss at each turn of the cattle movement ---minimum. That is calves and Yearlings.