Classic example of feedlot vs. cowcalf

[Happytrails]

Alberta Beef Producers and Chuck MacLean hosted a town hall type meeting in Brooks last week which was pretty well attended. It included a frank discussion of the proposal for livestock movement tracking by RFID tag scanning. It seems to be mostly OK with the feedlot (FL) types and mostly poison to the cow-calf (CC) operators. When one analyses the two viewpoints the likely reasons for this become clearer. 1. Feedlots are already reading ID tags during routine processing. They are also computerized to the level that e-mailing a "move in" report can be automatic. Thus there is very little hardship to them from ID tag tracking. 2. The FL sector likely views the prospect of aquiring highly documented feeder cattle positively as long as the price doesn't change. That might not be realistic. 3. If the present proposal goes forward and the auction markets are compelled to read tags in and out it will be a death sentence to the AMs. The savings in cattle handling for direct sales vs. the auction markets will be overwhelming. The FLs and the CCs might view their passing differently. Even though a lot of calves and yearlings are traded by video and computer the AM has been and still is an important price discoverer. It is also the quickest way to turn cattle into cash. This is probably valued higher by the CC sector than the FL. 4. I have no real evidence that LIS brand inspection is resented by the FL sector but I am sure that it is not as valued by them as it is by the CCs. In light of the fact that we are probably choosing between brand inspection and ID tag tracking in this debate the FLs and CCs are likely on opposite sides. The reason for that is the management basics of our operations. The FL guy might have 20,000 HD on a quarter section of land. The CC guy might have 1000 HD on 100 quarter sections. The FL is stocked 2000 times denser than the ranch. Obviously our cattle are not secured as well as the FL and hence our greater dependence on hide branding and brand inspection.
To my fellow cow-calf and yearling guys and girls, don't expect your customers, the feeders, to share your concerns about ID tag tracking. It is no skin off their hide. In fact, they might see it as increasing the supply of direct traded, limited bid cattle in the shorter term and they could be right. We have to do our own thinking and protect our own interests in these matters. Stay informed and make your concerns known. They have already softened up the rules a lot (apparently you can transport cattle from M Hat to High Prairie without scanning if you operate both fields) and if they drop scanning at auction markets I'd say we have mostly held our ground. HT

[Kathy]

There are more relevant circumstances I'd say are also big differences.

Most feedlots are injecting their cattle with multiple drug/hormone products. This is definitely something which they need to keep track of, due to withdrawal periods etc.

Cow calf operators can be big on the vaccine/hormone programs; but, I'd say most are not. Like our farm, the cattle only get antibiotics if they are real sick - and that's all they get for injections.

When it comes to problems with animal health that affect the consumer (those eating the critters), the problem rarely, if ever, comes from the time that animal spent with its original owner (the cow-calf and/or yearling operator).

Keeping our stress levels down (for both animals and owners) is probably the most important thing we can do for our health. I should know. Government interference bothers me. I sure wish they'd just go harass someone else. Our industry is very top heavy with bureaucrats and Ministers that keep selling out our individual freedoms for the "good of the whole". Sounds more like socialism/communism than free trade.

It is sure good to see all this moisture, though.

[BFW]

Happytrails I think your assessment of the ID situation is more or less acurate. However I question why you place any value on the services of LIS. They have practically no value at or beyond the feedlot level yet feedlots continue to pay for this service as LIS would not be able to function without this revenue and keep the service fee the same for everyone. If this service has value at the ranch level then perhaps ranchers need to pay the true cost of having an inspector drive to the ranch to provide the service. I am sure this would rapidly cause a movement to a more efficient system or cause the need for it to be brought under closer scrutiny. As for the concern that the tracking system will lead to more direct sales of cattle and less auction market sales and less price discovery, hogwash. The feeder cattle market is on e of the most open and transparent markets I can think of regardless of how they are sold. In fact if more cattle were sold direct it would lead to less of these "antibiotic cocktails" that everyone is so concerned with being used. The stress and huge cost of moving cattle, especially calves through auction markets adds a cost burden to the entire industry that is very difficult to overcome. There are better ways....

[per]

This would be a good discussion to have on the WSGA bus tour next month, June 21 to 23. A bus will leave Grand Prairie and Lloydminster picking up CC and FL folks all the way down to Lethbridge for conversation and discussion on this and other topics. Time will be spent at the Lethbridge Research station and a Feedlot tour. The idea is to build relationships, find common ground and discuss the issues facing our industry. Hopefully a better understanding will result in a better relationship and maybe even partnership.

Sorry if this is hijacking this thread. I am sure this very topic will be hashed out on the busses face to face with the FL and CC folks.

More info.403-272-9841 Eileen
403-250-9122 WSGA

[grassfarmer]

If the pioneers had similar attitudes the open prairie would never have been fenced and ranching as we know it wouldn't exist. Fencing would have been seen as an impediment to horse riding and unworkable because the wire had barbs on it which would cut your hands!
Why have we become such an inward looking, parochial business sector? If you could see beyond your own postal codes you could learn from other countries experiences - tagging and traceability are not new or unique to Western Canada. They are workable and will be introduced and backward looking campaigns to halt the progress are nothing but a waste of time and effort.

How about instead fighting to alter the market conditions that mean producers get the lowest live cattle prices for their animals since the 1930s? How about the estimate from AG Canada that predicts an average net operating income for Canadian beef operations of NEGATIVE $5000 for 2010? That's rather more serious than worrying about a few tags falling out and whether you can engineer a dispute between the cow/calf sector and the feedlot sector.

[Happytrails]

Thanks for your input, posters. In one case a big dose of vitriol must mean we are threatening to gore someone's ox. I'd say better their ox than ours. BFW, your point about LIS not being of much use to the FL sector is likely true. Actually that was one of the points I was trying to make. The CC man and the FLs have different interests and priorities. So how do we accommodate both camps? We CCs value LIS because they help protect our ownership interest in our branded livestock. The FLs don't feel there is value there because their cattle are in confinement. Maybe we will have to pay more for brand inspection. What we cannot allow, in my opinion, is the demise of LIS and brand inspection with the task of traceability turned over to RFID tag scanning. That (unproven) plan has nothing to determine ownership. In fact I'm not sure what information it is designed collect except the ID tag #'s that passed a certain scanner on a given day. The important stuff like the head count and class of cattle, who owns them and where they are going is what LIS collects daily. To remain competitive in N. America I don't think we can afford to do both. HT

[grassfarmer]

HappyTrails, you need to give your head a shake and work out who the "enemy" really is. It's not me, it's not the feedlots, it's not the tag manufacturers. Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things if you get a $3 rebate on an eartag or if traceability costs $5 a calf?? When you have a national cow herd being liquidated because the owner is getting $3-400 dollars less per animal than they are entitled to why spend all your efforts fighting over a piddling little sum like $3.
Put another way in your dream scenario Government gets less involved, we step back in time to a simpler way of life - you are still screwed because the missing hundreds of dollars per animal is still the number one problem. Why are you not interested in addressing that problem first and worrying about the little stuff later?

[rkaiser]

In a "word" grassfarmer, it's "insulation". And every cattle producer, CC or FL who has any interest in pursueing the conventional cattle industry has it.

As for tags vs. branding. My opinion is that a whole in the ear is a lot more acceptable to an animal than a burn on the skin. But I don't want to git all Dali Lama on everyone...LOL

I personally have a very good retention rate with all flex tags by putting them in first born calves at the base of their ear. (but don't tell Sadie that)LOL.. I also don't have any twines or garbage laying around to help tear the tags out.

I think that the cow calf guy could live with a tagging system, that worked properly, over a branding system. We have the technology, and if it is not perfect "yet" -- it will get there.

[coppertop]

My two cents worth isn't over the tags it
is the WSGA tour that only highlights
certain areas of the province. Why not a
tour out of central Alberta eg: Red Deer as
well as the others ? Seems that in the
grand scheme of things central AB., East
and West have enough cattle operations and
feedlots to at least register on the WSGA
radar !!!

[per]

My word is actually 2 words. Retention Hypertension. Some are just upset at having to tag, some are upset at age verification, some are upset at traceability, some are upset at retention, some want any kind of subsidy which somehow validates their influence on government. Some think the state owes us a living, some want the state out of the way as long as they send money.

Here's my view on retention. I have used several makes of tags and have been installing them at birth or branding since they came out. Retention has been good. Less than 1% on the calves which I own until 17 months of age. Around 1% on the cows that were done as calves. 3% on the old dangle tags that were in there since ccia conception. 40% loss on the bulls no matter whether the dangle or rfid. The original intent of these tags was traceability for rapid tracking for disease outbreak. Still a worthy intent in my opinion.

As far as the over zealous efforts of the CFIA, that needs to be taken to task and some common sense ground found. I think Sadies trial might bring that to a head.

The other conversation here is age verification. Again I see the value in it but somehow we need to have the ability to sell it, not give it away with the cattle.

Insulation to reduce our exposure, I suppose. I might remind one and all that there is nothing stopping us from getting involved in other enterprises. Yes a CC guy has the opportunity to start or buy shares in or make an alliance with a feedlot. The converse is true of a FL guy. Instead of beating my head against the wall I am trying to build strategic relationships.

[per]

Coppertop the WSGA tour travels the length of the province and both busses will stop in central Alberta to pick up passengers both FL and CC. The idea is to put them all together and talk on the busses. It has to start and end somewhere and was intended to bring the province together. There are plenty of feedlots throughout the province as well as ranches but there is a concentration of them near Lethbridge so as not to pick winners that is the direction chosen. Also there is a first class research station there. Busses get charged by the day so it made sense to just go one way. If there is a good uptake of participation of course it could go a different direction another year. It is one of those cases of trying to make a difference. I hope this explains it for you Coppertop. There is a pickup at Innisfail, pretty central, or Hanna.

[coppertop]

per, I realize the busses will pick up in
Central AB, but I do think WSGA should
consider doing a tour in and around Central
AB sometime. The Research Center is
interesting, many of us have toured it
during Agricultural Service Board tours or
on other tours over the years.

[per]

Point taken Coppertop. This is the first one and if successful certainly it could be done in your area the next time. The WSGA holds its AGM in Red Deer and tries to hold board meetings at central Alberta locations when possible. Hanna during the drought last year.

[grassfarmer]

Randy it would appear to be the same kind of "insulation" some African tribes use when they smear their huts with cattle manure.

[Happytrails]

I have been told to be careful what you toss around lest you get a bunch of it on yourself. On this thread it looks like it could be true. Per, my intention in bringing up the differences between the CC view and the FLs is certainly not to discredit one or the other. However we are sometimes affected by regulations differently. At the moment in Alberta the FLs seem to have more influence than the CCs. Could be ALMA or whatever. My only point is that we CCs had best make ourselves heard or we will have ourselves to blame if the results aren't to our liking.
Good info on the Stockgrowers bus tours in 2 weeks. They are one outfit which should have been making some noise on this in my opinion but haven't. HT