The auction market system

[cakadu]

Pandiana - I think you have hit on part of what is propelling the drive towards natural, organic and wanting to know where your food came from, how it was treated and how it was fed. Look at how the big burger joints like Burger King and McDonalds are stepping up how they buy their beef.

What concerns me is that at some point these huge ILO's are going to have to take a look at this growing trend out there and start to address it. A good deal of the questioning of where our food is coming from is rising out of the younger generation who are going to be or are the consumers of the future. They want questions answered and solutions to some of these things.

I am amazed at how many people I talk to who's kids have become vegetarian for whatever reason. That particular eating choice is growing and it has to be addressed. Not to say that all meat eating will end, there will always be plenty of people around who want to eat meat, but this should be sending up red flags.

[Muttley]

Everybody is concerned about whats in their meat. At our farm when we are finishing a beef for our own use we do not use any medication if it can be helped. I use the same principal in the rest of the herd. I use lots of antibiotics per year, but we don't give a shot everytime a calf coughs.

[cowman]

Practically every steer going through a large feedlot recieves a hormone implant and "medicated" feed. What is an ionophore but an anti-biotic? While you and I may raise a fairly drug and hormone free calf that all changes when he hits the feedlot. I certainly don't blame the feedlot. They are told by our best science that this stuff is safe and they are in the business of turning a profit.
If it's any consolation the chicken and pig business is just as bad or worse, they just don't get the bad press!
An excellent book on this subject is "Modern Meat" by Orville Schell from Random House publishing.
On the subject of vegitarianism, I agree that a lot of young people are choosing this life style...I have a grown daughter who is a vegitarian. She is perfectly healthy and my grandson is a very robust young lad who has never ate meat. And actually some of the vegitarian meat substitutes are pretty good.

[pandiana]

I picked up the Nov issue of Cattlemen last night and read the article 'The lungs tell a story of money lost to BRD' which I believe is very pertinent to this discussion.
The gist of the article is that the number of BRD-damaged lungs that were found in slaughtered calves in these studies, greatly exceeded the number of calves which had been diagnosed and/or treated for BRD. These subclinical cases of BRD nonetheless showed a significant effect of the disease in reduced performance (ADG) of about 40 lbs live or 25 to 30 lbs /carcass. The recommendations: "the results suggest we need to take a closer look at mass medicating more than just the high-risk cattle at feedlot arrival." and "Greater emphasis on prophylactics is needed to reduce both clinical and sub-clinical respiratory disease," Griffin concludes. "Earlier vaccination programs on the ranch, mass medication of calves and other steps...appear to be more successful in preventing or reducing lung lesions than attempting to identify sick calves and pulling and treating at the feedyard."
Wouldn't paying cow/calf operators to precondition calves on the farm solve this problem in a more 'responsible' way?

[cakadu]

It seems to me that this is where some of the social costs of ensuring safe food, protection of endangered species, caring for the environment etc. must be shared by more than just producers. There is some concern that all of these "minimal" costs keep coming back on one group without any thought of compensation.

What could be done to spread the costs of pre-conditioning these calves so that all come to the feedlot on a level playing field, or am I dreaming?

[ianben]

We ran a small feedlot here in UK. When we started and only recieved calves from three related sources health was not a problem.
We expanded and bought through the auction system. Health became a problem feed had to be medicated.
Our vet explained it was not the auction system but the number of sources from which the calves came. Each having their own strains of the same virus which some of the others where not resisant to.
People have the same thing when mixed at school or in a war. The losses in the Ist world war where larger from illness than bullets.
The humidity of the air also has a roll.
The more humid the easier the germs are transmitted.
Is this the reason your feedlot alley is situated where it is?

Regards Ian

[cowman]

Ian
The dry, fairly warm climate of southern Alta. is almost ideal for feeding cattle. The majority of the cow/calf operations are in central and northern Alberta. Large amounts of barley are grown throughout Alberta and Sask. and we have a good road system. Two large packing houses, fairly close to feedlot alley, and the big plant in Washington state make processing easy. So there are a lot of factors but weather definitely is a very strong point.
As an aside, the local government is now trying it's damnedest to screw it all up with extra taxes and regulations. Sort of bite the hand that feeds them!

[pandiana]

I cannot totally agree with cowman regarding our ideal climate. When most calves are weaned across the prairies in the fall temperatures can drop dramatically such as seen recently when a summer-like 17 degrees C dropped to -20 degrees C in a matter of a few days and could quite possible bounce back to above zero. Also, in the relatively open (treeless) areas we have a lot of wind. During dry periods, the dust can be a major problem in pens during weaning. Dust can be a significant risk factor in calfhood pneumonias.

However, it is clear to me, from the above discussions, that the co-mingling of physiologically and psychologically stessed calves into a large feedlot is a high risk venture to say the least. Could we dare to draw some conclusions from these discussions such as:
Preconditioning of calves would lower the morbidity and mortality of calves entering the feedlot resulting in 1. less stress on calves and 2. less cost to feedlots for mass medication and 3. reduced risk associated with the prophylactic use of antibiotics. or B. Feeding calves on the farm in smaller feedlots could also accomplish the above.
This points to another question regarding compliance for which I will start another thread.

[pandiana]

ianben, I appreciate your perspective on feedlot experience, although I noticed that you used the past tense 'ran'. Would smaller feedlots make a profit most years in the UK or would you have to have the 'economy of scale' in order to make it work?

[cowman]

Pandianna: I said "almost" ideal. Sure we get big fluctuations in the weather but it is usually a dry cold in southern Alta. and I don't think anybody resents a chinook! The feedlots "manage" the wind with windbreaks. So no it is not "ideal" but it sure beats -30 all winter and snow up to your butt.
The idea of going back to the small feedlot is just not going to happen. The return to your labor is just too small to make it feasible. Who needs it?
Incidently, a lot of us would probably be real happy if we could have snow up to our butt this winter!