The auction market system

[ianben]

We ran a small feedlot here in UK. When we started and only recieved calves from three related sources health was not a problem.
We expanded and bought through the auction system. Health became a problem feed had to be medicated.
Our vet explained it was not the auction system but the number of sources from which the calves came. Each having their own strains of the same virus which some of the others where not resisant to.
People have the same thing when mixed at school or in a war. The losses in the Ist world war where larger from illness than bullets.
The humidity of the air also has a roll.
The more humid the easier the germs are transmitted.
Is this the reason your feedlot alley is situated where it is?

Regards Ian

[cowman]

Ian
The dry, fairly warm climate of southern Alta. is almost ideal for feeding cattle. The majority of the cow/calf operations are in central and northern Alberta. Large amounts of barley are grown throughout Alberta and Sask. and we have a good road system. Two large packing houses, fairly close to feedlot alley, and the big plant in Washington state make processing easy. So there are a lot of factors but weather definitely is a very strong point.
As an aside, the local government is now trying it's damnedest to screw it all up with extra taxes and regulations. Sort of bite the hand that feeds them!

[pandiana]

I cannot totally agree with cowman regarding our ideal climate. When most calves are weaned across the prairies in the fall temperatures can drop dramatically such as seen recently when a summer-like 17 degrees C dropped to -20 degrees C in a matter of a few days and could quite possible bounce back to above zero. Also, in the relatively open (treeless) areas we have a lot of wind. During dry periods, the dust can be a major problem in pens during weaning. Dust can be a significant risk factor in calfhood pneumonias.

However, it is clear to me, from the above discussions, that the co-mingling of physiologically and psychologically stessed calves into a large feedlot is a high risk venture to say the least. Could we dare to draw some conclusions from these discussions such as:
Preconditioning of calves would lower the morbidity and mortality of calves entering the feedlot resulting in 1. less stress on calves and 2. less cost to feedlots for mass medication and 3. reduced risk associated with the prophylactic use of antibiotics. or B. Feeding calves on the farm in smaller feedlots could also accomplish the above.
This points to another question regarding compliance for which I will start another thread.

[pandiana]

ianben, I appreciate your perspective on feedlot experience, although I noticed that you used the past tense 'ran'. Would smaller feedlots make a profit most years in the UK or would you have to have the 'economy of scale' in order to make it work?

[cowman]

Pandianna: I said "almost" ideal. Sure we get big fluctuations in the weather but it is usually a dry cold in southern Alta. and I don't think anybody resents a chinook! The feedlots "manage" the wind with windbreaks. So no it is not "ideal" but it sure beats -30 all winter and snow up to your butt.
The idea of going back to the small feedlot is just not going to happen. The return to your labor is just too small to make it feasible. Who needs it?
Incidently, a lot of us would probably be real happy if we could have snow up to our butt this winter!

[ianben]

We now fatten about 70 cattle/yr health is again not a problem and profit per animal is up. Not an income though just a waste disposal system for our hay and straw for horses business. The bales we cannot sell to the horse trade are used by the cattle.
BSE finished the feedlot, other farmers just to optimisic that things wuold return to pre 3/96.
Consumption has, just about, but not prices.
I can see dust would be a problem anything those bugs can ride on into the lungs.
We live in an industrial area and the air is poluted by alsorts exhaust fumes etc.
The still damp days of Oct/Nov where our real killers.
If your feedlots are on the scale I believe no amount of pre-conditioning will save the need for anti-biotics when mixed.
I did try to find a way to buy without mixing but never did sucessfully.
If you could fill a feedlot pen from one source with the right quality I would think that should be worth a premium.
Has that been tried in Canada?

Regards Ian

[cowman]

Ian: There are really two kinds of feedlots in western Canada. The backgrounder lot and the finishing lot. The backgrounder lot is usually fairly small and is designed to get calves up to about 800 lbs. The finishing lots are mostly huge and take that calf to slaughter in a short time.The backgrounder uses a lot of silage, hay etc. while the finishing lot feeds mostly grain.
The large finishing lots have no time to be messing with sick calves so they have to use drugs. Some of these lots have in excess of 50,000 animals. They source cattle from many backgrounders and they do a very good job of controlling disease. They have people riding horses through the pens who pull out any sick ones...that's all they do.
The trend to larger feedlots isn't going to change. Bigger is the future.

[pandiana]

Yes, I agree. A chinook is a great boost and a welcome relief after a cold spell. I guess my comments about weather were directed more agains fall weaning. We are always hoping for good weather to begin the weaning process during this transition from summer to winter (This is one reason I tend to wean earlier). But I was just thinking of this year when many of my neighbors were weaning in November. Most cows and calves were sporting their summer coats (or at least inadequate coats) when temperatures were above normal. With a 27 degree drop, many calves were without a full winter coat and I am sure had a hard time adjusting to that initial cold let alone being weaned.

[pandiana]

ianben: Yes I am quite sure that buyers would be willing to hunt out large groups of uniform cattle to fill a pen (at least this is what they are telling us). The problem is that, although some ranches have this number, there are many more farms that have a problem even getting a 'pot' load of 50 or so uniform cattle. These are some of the ones that end up in the auction mart.
We have talked about getting together with neighbors to market cattle together but it is amazing how difficult that is with differences in calving and weaning dates and management in general.

Referring to the above discussion, would their be as much problem with co-mingling herds raised in the same vicinity that were put directly into one pen?

[cowman]

Pandianna:They have this sort of sale...it's called a presort. I don't know if it helps the health any but it sure can be a nice way to sell. No more can they cut that little tailender or off color out and steal him! A couple of thousand are sold in a few hours and everybody goes home happy! A buyer can by two lots and fill a liner. Calves don't have to spend so much time waiting for a buyer to get a load.

[pandiana]

Cowman, I am a little out of my league with this feedlot thing but is a typical feedlot pen designed to hold about 250 head such as seen at Cattleland?

[ianben]

Due to foot mouth our auctions have been closed for the last 10 months and movement restricted.
This has lead to much more use of video auctions and cattle being listed on the internet.
I cant say how happy the people who are using it are and wether it will disappear once markets reopen but it does solve some the problems you mention above.
Listing on the internet is a cheap way of advertsing what you have available espesially if you all use the same site.

Regards Ian

[cowman]

Pandiana: I think the big lots would have that many in a pen. The smaller custom lots have about 100/pen but you don't have to fill a whole pen when having cattle custom fed. Most of them have a pen sharing deal.
The custom feedlot is a good alternative to feeding your own calves. They do a good job and will market your calves, hedge them, buy them for you, finance them etc. A lot of doctors, lawyers, business people feed cattle in custom lots! They probably never see the animals! It's basically a tax dodge.

[countryguy]

"The trend to bigger feedlots isn't going to change.Bigger is the future."

I and many other people could not disagree with this statement more.It is a proven fact that North American cattle producers are the most productive and efficient in the world,yet they are the least profitable.The fact is beef cattle were not intended to eat grain.South American and other countries in the world laugh at our systems of production while capitilizing on some lucerative grass finished world markets.They mock North Americans for eating "tasteless" beef.I think what we're going to see here in the not too distant future (ie 10 yrs time) due to gov't regulations regarding manure management and animal rights groups is a return to more finishing on pasture.No one can dispute the fact that we are starting to see some water quality problems coming as a result of these intensive livestock operations.I believe these problems are going to start to be adressed in the near future.Albeit not without a battle from these large operations though.....................

[pandiana]

"The fact is beef cattle were not intended to eat grain." or carrots or beet pulp, or silage. You could also say they were not intended to calve at two years of age nor wean 50% of their body weight year after year. I believe this is a testament to the incredible versatility of the bovine and mans' desire to manipulate the gene pool. However, as you point out, the more you 'push the envelope' by interfereing with nature the more repercussions we see in our ecosystem. One problem is that the man that re-designes cattle, is not usually the same person that has to clean up the manure.