The auction market system

[cowman]

contryguy: Where is all this pasture going to come from? In case you haven't noticed we are pretty well maxxed out!
Are we going to convert our grain growing land to pasture? Well despite the poor return on grain it gets a lot uglier when we grow grass! Grass should only be grown on land that is unsuitable for grain! On a large scale this is just not going to happen...unless the price for grass-fed beef goes way up!
You talk about the good beef from South America? I will admit I haven't a lot of experience with this beef. All I know is what my Dad told me about Argentine beef...they got fed some in Italy during the second world war...he said you had to cut it by pounding your boot on the bayonet!!! It was tough as leather. He said the only thing worse was the mutton!

[countryguy]

"Grass should only be grown on land that is unsuitable for grain."
Cowman I couldn't resist chuckling when I read that as it is a paradigm I often hear from older producers than myself.I have to ask you why you state this.I am a grain producer and sure as heck ain't making any money playing this game!! I can pencil a much better profit per acre growing grass to be harvested by livestock than I am getting now,with less risk,investment,labor,etc.Just last week I attended a grazing conference where there was a speaker who had the best quarter in his municipality seeded to grass and was experiencing excellent returns through grazing,moreso than by growing crops.As to where all the pasture is going to come from the answer is simple.People are stocking phenominal numbers of animals on small amounts of land through the use of management intensive grazing or even simple rotational grazing.All that is required is a little fencing and a little time moving cattle.As for the argentine beef I honestly couldn't comment about it,I was just relaying other information that I picked up at the conference,but honestly,you don't think their quality of beef might have improved since the war?

I am wondering how many people here read "The Stockman Grass Farmer?"It is a wealth of knowledge and resources and I suggest it to everyone that I can.

[pandiana]

countryguy, although I am all for rotational grazing, I have some problem with your last statement. You say grass farming is takes less investment. Do you farm in Sask. were land is still reasonable? We have been on the lookout for pasture quarters in AB and at $1000.00/ac for marginal lands this is a sizeable investment. To rent pasture in our area, the asking price is $25.00/pr/mo. This isn't cheap. Not only that but in many places you can only pasture 5 mo of the year. What happens the rest of the year? I do agree that rotational grazing is a very good way to get the best grass utilization but I have to agree with cowman that if a large feedlot of 20,000 calves emptied out onto grassland at a stocking rate of 1to30 on shortgrass or even 1/5 in good tame grass there would be a lot of acres used up in a hurry. Needless to say, I think even grassland used intensivly for long periods of time can have a negative impact on the environment.

[countryguy]

Pandiana....I really feel for you folks out west dealing with those kind of land prices and the drought and all.Where I come from good,good land is easily had for $500/acre with people stocking a cow/calf pair per acre.We can have double the ground as you folks out west to have stockpiled forage,grazing corn,or any other extended grazing method.You probably have a clearer picture of where I'm coming from now.You could almost say it's a goldmine out here.Scary thing is more and more Albertans are finding this out....

[Muttley]

I am wondering about the comment, stocking rates at a cow/calf per acre. What kind of grass is this, is this year after year, was the grass effected by the drought? Is this land intensified grazing? I grow a lot of fall rye for grazing and have found this great for putting more cows per acre,but still can,t get these kind of stocking rates. When I have tried some rotational grazing I have found it very time consuming and I have not been that pleased with my weaning weights.

[cowman]

Countryguy: A lot of what you say is true. Grain prices have been depressed for quite awhile but still with good land and a little rain it can work. With no rain nothing works including rotational grazing. I do read the Stockman Grass Farmer and I've attended grazing seminars and I do practice some rotational grazing, but everyone has to fit these ideas into their own operation. A quarter just down the road from me sold last month for $2645/acre so as you can see neither grain or cows are ever going to pay for that baby!
I find rotational grazing to be a lot of extra work and expense. I really hate electric fences!! I think you would have to have lived out here to get an idea of just how bad this drought was. The cows are still pouring into the marts. I suspect when the final count comes in we will have killed off around 25% of the cow herd or more.
And pandiana: If you can get pasture at $25/pr. snap it up...that is a bargain!

[countryguy]

Muttley,the stocking rates I am refering to would be on tame pasture that is being utilized with intensive grazing.This does not happen over night either,only after the water and mineral cycles have been improved,which may take a few years.This is also land which has not been affected by drought.All of this would definitely on the precipitation levels but our area seems to be an area that gets adequate moisture every year,in fact excessive the last four.I've heard that the long term forecast for the west is above normal precip levels and I truly hope it happens for you guys.

[cowman]

Countryguy: I assume you are somewhere in Manitoba. If I was a young man I would be right there with you reaping the benifits of this new beef business! All the power too you! Get out and do it kid!

[pandiana]

"The trend to bigger feedlots isn't going to change.Bigger is the future."

Cowman, living around Red Deer I would assume you know Don Curtice of Little Red Feeders. He runs a small around 3000 head feedlot close the the Red Deer River. According to an article in the Dec issue Alberta Beef he spends a lot of effort in monitoring the environmental impact of his enterprise on the river and surrounding area. This was summed up by Will Verboven as follows "...as mega feedlots face mounting evironmental, political and regulatory challenges perhaps the Curtice family operation is more realistic and environmentally sound. As the environmental and social optics of feedlots change, LRF and Don Curtice may well be harbinger of how feedlots operate in the future." I thought this sort of fit into the above discussion.

[cowman]

He is an excellent operator and a friend. I was in school with him from Grade 1! He is also a very smart business man and committed to doing things right. He runs a good operation and I'll give him a little plug...if you want to feed cattle with a good honest operation, call him!

[crazeeakerz]

I have followed this topic with great interest and would like to add my comments (for what their worth).
A number of years ago we were not pleased with the results of selling through the auction, so we tried selling preconditioned calves off the farm. This worked well for about 4 years. Our buyers were happy with the cattle, they calves were not sick, etc. However, for reasons I can't explain the buyers began to get restless. They complained mostly of the price and then other minor things. In short they returned to the auction to buy their calves. We eventually returned to the auction to sell as private selling became too much of a hassle. We sell our calves after they have been properly weaned and are eating well on their own. The prices we receive are good and we have had no complaints from buyers. What more can I say.

[cowman]

crazeeakerz: I had a deal like you describe once. The problem was the buyer up and died on me! But it sure worked well for both of us.
I also had a buyer who bought my calves out of the auction for about four years straight. I knew him personally so would always phone him about a month later to see how they did (I also phoned him before I sold them so he could be there). He never had any problems. These were big crossbred steers right off their mothers, who had been getting hay and a creep. They weighed in the 7-8 range. One year they averaged 834 lbs. with an overnight stand! Unfortunately, this feeder got old and quit. Now I don't usually have a clue who buys these calves as it all seems to be professional cattle buyers.

[cowman]

One other thing I always try to do is thank the guy who bought my calves whether he is a pro or not. I don't know if it does any good but I don't think it hurts! And I get to know a lot of interesting people!

[peasant]

I am a English Farmer and due to the outbreak of Foot and Mouth, we now dont have a Live Market system. This has made it very difficult for buyers and sellers to get together. I am not sure about the system in your country, but in England a lot of Markets are small affairs,drawing people from only a small distance. The thing that is most noticeable is there is no way of fixing the prices and no competion for the better lots. Animals tend to be sold just on verbal discription and weight. The dealers acting as middle men to move Livestock on in the chain. The Land Agents that run the Livestock Markets in this Country acting only as brokers.