hoof and mouth

[Happytrails]

I won't bother trying to change a closed mind but will point out that LIS inspects all cattle traded even if NVB. What use is being made of the ID tag scanning data that is now being reported by feedlots? HT

[grassfarmer]

I'd be quite open minded to you convincing me how LIS/branding could quickly trace animals as described in my case scenario. Truth is you know there is no argument, its just empty talk.

[grgsrvc]

I guess when I posted the topic I was more trying to bring to
understanding what would we have to do if we had a outbreak of hoof and
mouth. I was not sure of the length of export ban and who it applied
to. Here's the next thought. Could you survive a mass cull of all your
animals? and if there was an ad hoc bailout how should it be handled?

I don't think even our grain growing brethren would escape this thing.

We need our critters to chew through the excess crop production.

[Happytrails]

My Dad lived thru hoof and mouth in '52. It was eliminated in about a year, I believe, by targeted slaughter. How did they find the right critters? Well I know it wasn't by ID tag scanning. I ask again; what useful information is being generated by the feedlot ID tag reporting that is being done now? If it is a good idea there should be some benefits showing up by now. HT

[grassfarmer]

I guess they didn't have a feedlot alley back then either - the concentration of cattle and the rapid speed of transport that happens nowadays makes the spread of disease so much more likely and dangerous.

As I understand it the feedlot reporting program is getting some experience of the system and how it will work. They can rapidly record animal id numbers coming in and hold them on a database. This is a small component of a movement/traceability system. I wouldn't condemn it because it isn't showing obvious reward - would you consider branding a flawed idea if ranchers did it and there was no brand inspection/LIS or reporting of brands on the manifest? Only reading tags on arrival at feedlot is a similar small part of the big picture rather than a complete solution.

[Happytrails]

GF. Thanks for a civilized reply and I will try to do the same.
You and I disagree on how to achieve the same goals.
In regard to your hypothetical group of black heifers I respectfully suggest that there are several records that would allow a quick and accurate trace back. Firstly, the feedlot operator would have bills of sale. If you have 200 black heifers you had better have either 400 black cows or some bills of sale. Also there would be trucking manifests. And then they would have ID tags which would identify their herd of origin. To me, that is sufficient documentation for effective traceback. Cattle are managed in groups and I feel our traceback systems should reflect that reality and give up on writing a story on each individual. Regards, HT

[grgsrvc]

I visited some friends in northern England in '97. They showed me
their individual animal passport, multiple pages bureaucratic wet
dream system for their cattle. I agree with HT about cattle
documentation in the herd sense. Individual animal documentation is
not how cattle are managed.

[grassfarmer]

HT - Bills of sale won't do much good if you land 200 head of black NVB heifers in a feedlot from several auctions, several sources on one day because you can't identify the individual. What if the F M case was a single black heifer split out in the ring because it was smaller than it's 5 pen mates? You have no way on knowing which lot of cattle that made up the 200 it came from. What about it's 5 pen mates that went to another feedlot and may be infected and not showing signs? You need to know where they are right away. Tracing farm of birth through the EID tag only works if that is where it traveled from on sale day - if it had been owned for a while by a backgrounder and there was no record of its ID being transported from the farm of birth to his feedlot/pasture and then back to the auction you are up the creek without a paddle. You need individual IDs and you need movement tracking of them. Age verification is minor in my opinion compared to the tracking data.

grgsrvc, the EU tracking system is stupid I'll agree with that. The problem is it is paper based which was the wrong decision. They should have used EIDs and a computerized tracking system from the outset. They collect the data needed but in a slow, expensive and cumbersome manner. That's what I want to avoid here.

[jensend]

if we want to expand international markets there are customers out there who demand single animal traceability. that's the single best reason for setting up and adopting an eid system. the arguments for brand id are just static.