PreConditioning Calves: Compliance

[pandiana]

Further to the discussion on the Auction Market system and the talk on preconditioning calves, I can't help wondering how the cattle buyers would know just what sort of preconditioning each lot of calves have had. Preconditioning to me might mean a certain number of days on a grain/silage feed with a certain number of specified vaccinations. To another producer, it might just mean they have stopped bawling and have an 8-way and 4-way vaccine. And then, what about compliance? How does the buyer know for sure these calves have been vaccinated? ..or are on feed? That is until they hit the feedlot and a wreck follows. Is this part of the reason why preconditioning, although talked about has not gained much recognition?

[cowman]

Well I think they had this program in place a few years ago. A vet had to oversee it I think and he put a special green tag in their ear. It was a colossal bust as no one paid a bonus. So I guess pre-conditioning is a waste of time.

[Muttley]

I think that maybe one way to get that premium for pre conditioning is to sell directly to the feedlot. This way we get that extra money in our pocket. Once the feedlots see that we are delivering what we say and practicing what we preach they will be after our business not us looking to them. I have always been happier selling privatly.

[cowman]

I have sold calves privately from time to time but prefer the auction market system. Everybody gets a chance and it is a true price discovery. There is more risk, without a doubt, but it works both ways.
And I admit(somewhat sheepishly) that I sell my big steers right off the cows. It makes the most sense from an economic point of view.

[pandiana]

I can see if you added a vet bill to preconditioning it would be even more difficult to recoup your investment.

This said, however, if you could extract the cost of preconditioning upon the sale of your calves, would it be done? ...or, would the extra handling and work involved make it not worth while to recover cost... or, what premium would you require to make this program worth your while?

[Muttley]

As a purebred breeder myself sometimes we must absorb certain costs for a period of time till a market is built.
One of the things we do is to medicate cattle that will travel a distance, before we ship. This practice has gotten us positive feedback from our customers on the health of their newly arrived stock. We do this to please the customer and earn their business. It's out of my pocket after sale, and I feel that from doing this we are seeing rewards back.
We must sometimes sacrifice our earnings to be rewarded higher earnings in the future.

[cowman]

I usually take my heifers and little steers through to spring but if I had to precondition my calves I would not only want feed and health costs but something for my time and effort. I'm thinking in the neighborhood of $75 for thirty days. I don't know if that is enough for all the hassle. Don't forget these calves are basically on hold, or going backwards for those thirty days,so we're talking about 10 cents/lb.

[pandiana]

I agree with Muttley that in order to build a business reputation you may have to take a few less dollars. On the other hand, there is a breakeven point at which in order to stay in business, you have to cover your costs. I think with margins as tight as they are, many of us are in this position. Other auction mart prices may reflect superior calves, I dont see a premium for 'healthier' calves.
Thanks cowman for the dollar figure. $75.00 seems like a lot to expect. However at the price of a bottle of micotil, vaccines, ivomec, and the potential loss of a calf or two, it helps to put it in perspective. It would be nice to think that I actually get paid for my time but that is only a fantasy at this point. And yes, that is a good point about lost gain. According to studies, it takes at least six weeks to get weaned calves back on track.

[cowman]

Pandiana: Isn't the price of micotal outrageous? No arguing it is good stuff but the price!!! I mean what does it take to make this stuff? How long until their patent runs out and we can get a good generic? I think if this drug was cheap we could save a whole lot more calves.

[cowman]

The big steers I sell get no medication whatever. When they hit the feedlot they'll get it all, so why vaccinate?...even something as simple as 8-way?(they do get a blackleg shot in June) This is how the system works and I like to think my big steers have the stamina to overcome a lot of stress. I don't believe my smaller steers could handle it quite as well. And as for the heifers...I got tired of getting screwed on calves just because they are heifers!
So I keep them over and VoilA!! as yearlings they are worth just as much as steers!

[pandiana]

"The big steers I sell get no medication whatever. When they hit the feedlot they'll get it all, so why vaccinate?..."

I guess the reason I would like to see calves vaccinated before they leave the farm is that it takes 2 - 3 weeks for an immune response to develope even minimally. Maximum response is developed following a booster shot about six weeks after the initial one. Those first couple of weeks after weaning and on entering a feedlot are when they need the protection.

In addition, there is some evidence that already stressed calves such as those newly weaned will not respond normally to the vaccine challenge.

Of course, this in no way changes the fact that you are not getting paid for doing the right thing.

[cowman]

Just as an aside to this... I vaccinate the calves I keep with an 8way booster and a IBR/BVD up the nose shot. I've never had any problems after that...well maybe a snotty nose and a cough...which I treat with sulpha-methazine and a shot of liqui-miacin. If they get ugly I bite the bullet and give them a shot of micotil. I don't believe I've lost a calf in the last ten years. Should I be vaccinating for something else?

[pandiana]

I just picked up the Dec issue of Alberta Beef and on the back cover was an ad for "The Stockmen's Choice" at Fort Macleod Auction. There are 12 producers with maybe 1500 head of cattle selling as Preconditioned. The ad lists the ranch, the number of calves, the genetics, weaning date at the treatments and when they were treated.
Just an example:
Ray Watmoug 160 Hereford & Herford-Red Angus X steers & heifers (replacement quality), vacc. branding time 8-way, IBR/PI3/Som. Ralgro - steers only. Weaned Sept 17, 8way, IBR/PI3/ Somnugen, Ivomec, Biomycin, Ralgro-steers only.
I am very impressed. I guess preconditioning is still around. Sale is today. It will be interesting to see if they get paid for their work. Also, how the determine compliance. Is it the honor system?

[cowman]

I imagine these are mostly"reputation" cattle(Watmaughs have been around for a long time) and you can be pretty sure that what they say is what they do.
I note these little steers have already had 2 hormone implants and will probably get another before they are slaughtered. I'm not saying it's wrong, just noting it!