Did BSE cause traceability?

[kato]

The other thread is getting long, and this subject seems to have some legs, so let's carry on here.

I think that if not for BSE, traceability would not be nearly the issue it is today. per made the comment that Australia is using traceability, but I think that's as much a marketing strategy aimed at keeping Australian beef on the radar as much as anything. When you're competing for customers, once your competitors take up something that may have a marketing advantage, you do it to, for fear of being left behind.

Sure, consumers 'say' they want traceability, but if we hadn't had this BSE fiasco in North America, it wouldn't be nearly as big a deal as it is now. Even with BSE, no one seems to want to pay for it. So it gets paid for by us, without gaining any benefit for the work.

Or is traceability a big deal? Maybe it's just a big deal with governments looking for any excuse to restrict imports?

I can see being useful if fmd ever showed up, which could be the only benefit we actually ever see. We're sure not seeing a benefit right now.

[Happytrails]

I would like to refer those interested to check out the smcgrath76 post at the end of second class citizens. Pretty well hits it on the head IMHO. Tracking movement of millions of cattle when virtually none of them have health issues makes no sense. As for falling behind the Aussies I suggest that it is mostly in PR where we lag. For those who believe that the outback is full of ID tagged cattle I would like to meet with them to discuss the sale of some bridges. HT

[per]

I too am trying to hay and other things. I am not avoiding any questions but would also like to think on the subject a little more before I respond. Kato, I think this is a separate subject from BSE as we were having this conversation pre 2003. LIS was able to use brand and manifest to trace back in 2003 for the BSE. Mexico uses the metal tag system quite successfully in their bovine tracking system. I uses metal bangs tags as a backup on a project several years ago. The retention was not 100% but close. I think the ones that were caught by the bush were not installed close enough.

[grassfarmer]

No, BSE didn't cause it but it speeded the introduction. When you are export dependent you have to follow the lead of your competitors - it's a case of having to do it so you don't fall behind. It's a cost of doing business and as such won't bring a direct cash reward to producers.

HT's comment that "Tracking movement of millions of cattle when virtually none of them have health issues makes no sense" is rather tempting fate. This situation could literally change overnight - some thought it had with the Olymel scare in Red Deer last month.

[hobbyfrmr]

Furrow, I was at a funeral in North Battleford today. 1:46 p.m. the sky opened. Strong wind, marble sized hail. I think the hail "capped" the drainage grates, there was running water everywhere, gushing out of culverts, the water on streets was at least deep as the bottom of the door on trucks. Crazy. Heading east (?) on hwy 40 leaving North Battleford it looks like crops were not even touched. Anywhere that system is going, there will be damage!!

[furrowtickler]

funny thing was it went no where. It just hung over the city and pounded for about an hour or more then disapated. Got one canola feild on the east side of the ring road, canola on the west side not touched. Battleford got it too but not as bad from what I hear. State of emergency issued this afternoon on the north side of the river. There were litraly rivers and lakes of ice in intersections on the east side of the city.

[smcgrath76]

GF - That is exactly the problem. "We
have to follow the lead of our
competitors"...
They should be following our lead, not
the other way around. With the size of
the industry, climate, infrastructure,
etc. that we have here we could and
should be the world leader. We should
be tracking cattle to improve our
ability to target markets with the
health thing being a side bonus, rather
than forced to track for health reasons
with no other discernible benefits on
the horizon at an industry level.
We have invested more than most
operations on traceability in our own
cowherd than most people, but it is
certainly not driven by animal health...

[per]

I totally agree we need to be in the lead. The trouble here is we could be tracking for a multitude of reasons the least of which (until we have FMD) is health. Given the multitude of reasons it amazes me that not more of us are on the band wagon. 1999 will never be here again. We need to build an industry that is suitable for the 21 century. If we are not to follow the lead of our competitors then we need to get ahead of them.

[grassfarmer]

Unfortunately our industry commodity organisations like ABP and CCA are still stuck in the 90s model. Their thinking is limited to us being the lowest cost producer to the US market something that clearly doesn't work when the dollar is at parity.

[RShields]

We can't compete on cost of production and traceability adds signifficantly to our cost all the way up and down the chain. More costs are yet to come when they make the markets record every animal.

[per]

I guess that depends on to what extent you want to go. The average cow calf guy is already bearing the cost without the chain being completed. We have an RFID tag that is capable of bearing any info we want. Most don't have a $500 tag reader. A buck or two a head. If you are going direct to a feedlot they already have all the necessary hardware and so do most packing plants. That just leaves the auction markets that just completed a test run on cost and speed of commerce use. More work to be done there. Help me out here RS are us guys at the bottom going to bear any more cost than we already are? Maybe higher selling fee? What am I missing here?

[SADIE]

Per

It came out at the June 15 Tribunal hearing in Saskatoon and the June 23 hearing in Swift Current. You have to have a reliable permanent ID before you can enforce traceability.

July 2010 Saskatchewan Beef Business Magazine Page 9 RFID TAGS ARE ON TRIAL

THE THEME: EXPERIENCED CATTLEMAN KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BULLSHIT AND MANURE.

LOTS OF EVIDENCE OF RETENTION LOSS:

1)6% Loss with every turn of the cattle through an auction mart.

2)12% Loss from fall calf to finished cattle in feedlot.

3)Cow Calf Herd---Cow herd retention is after 2 years 30-50% retention loss per year. The main cause is the back buttons break down and come apart.


Why do we need to purchase RFID readers? SO we can scan the cowshit and pastures to get the RFID numbers so that we can "deregister them with the Administrator and not be liable under section 185?"

More information later. How are they going to enforce this?

[per]

Not sure what tag they use in Australia or bolus or what but they claim 99% plus retention and speed of commerce reading. I am aware of the retention issue here and have plenty of experience in this business. I agree we need a reliable tag but that is a logistics issue surrounding whether there should be traceability or not. Our current tag is an albatross but that should give us incentive to find a better way. I am firmly in your corner on the issue of retention and the problems with the CFIA. Two different conversations in my mind.

[SADIE]

THe topic still is traceability of a product using a serial number. Until this can be applied and stay with the animal traceability cannot be achieved.

As soon as the word "scanner" is mentioned I ask how much more "taxpayer dollar" and Cattleman's dollar must come forward to buy scanners when the serial number isnt on the package. The mention of "no reads", no tags.

At the hearings and public and now to political people this whole project is making the GUN REGISTRY LOOK LIKE A GREAT PIECE OF POLITICAL WORK.

[Happytrails]

It is apparent that there is some confusion between traceability and livestock movement tracking. Traceability in my view would involve having a beast permanently identified and connected to the owner (probably the one who raised the calf). Movement tracking in its most ambitious form is a make work project which attempts to document every step the calf takes. Not very interesting or profitable IMHO. I think we should declare if we support traceability or movement tracking. I'm all for traceability; I even brand my calves so everyone knows where they came from. Movement tracking beyond that which LIS does is make work for no pay for me and my family. As I've said before it is a hoax and a scam and I hope there is enough opposition to kill it. To Per, when the auction markets go the way of prairie grain elevators you will realize what you're missing. HT