Did BSE cause traceability?

[littledoggie]

Sometimes I wonder if the whole point is to make things difficult for us. Just think how easy it would be to trace "protein that's made in a vat".

[per]

Well I just wanted to throw it out there one more time to test the lay of the land. HT, our definitions are not to far off each other and yes LIS does a fantastic job of traceability. Tracking is a different topic and I also agree that there is very little use or appetite for tracking in it's extream form (there are some overlaps). As far as Auction Markets go I have made every effort to use them and do believe they are the ultimate price discovery method. Having given some thought to your prairie elevator comment, I am surprised at how little I miss those old sentinels other that it forces a guy to learn how to use a GPS when flying rather than swooping down to read the name of the town on the elevator. In some ways that change has made my operation more efficient. I don't haul my own grain anymore and no longer need staff or equipment to do that. Just a simple fast loading system. Once the B train leaves the yard I am free to do something else like pontificate on here.

[grassfarmer]

Real simple answer - go to double tagging and then you don't lose identities. Real simple to implement too - the Government just tells the tag manufacturers to hand over 2 instead of 1 for the same money. They will - it's been done elsewhere. To all the naysayers that p m that we can't do this, can't to that, don't want to do this or that how do we stay competitive (or become competitive?) as an exporting nation in a world market where others have implemented systems far ahead of ours?
And don't say quit tagging and drop the SRM protocols because this isn't going to fly.

[smcgrath76]

I am not sure how many more tags we can
fit in the ear...
We tag calves with a Ztag floppy and CCIA
tag. We keep replacements and brand them,
and tag them with a DNA collection tag
that is then sent to the lab and DNA
stored on every breeding animal. We also
tag all breeding females with a #2 steel
curl lock tag. I will need bigger ears if
we get too many more tags...

[per]

You're already doing what GF suggested. No more tags needed.

[kato]

Ours have a brand, a ccia tag, a plastic ID tag, and a metal numbered tag with our name stamped into it. I think that's more ID than I have for myself. Our cattle may lose tags, but we always know who they are.

I guess I should have named this thread "tracking" instead of traceability, eh? So where's the dividing line between them? If you have an animal that you need to trace, how detailed does the tracking have to be for it to work?

[Happytrails]

Kato. I suggest that mostly we don't need additional movement tracking for the majority of cattle. They live a short and carefree life and then are harvested before their 2nd birthday. They usually have had 2 or 3 owners by then. If they have an original ID tag we immediately know 2. Normal records should make finding the middle owner pretty easy. For breeding herds and other cattle outside the box it will be more complicated but they are more likely to be branded. And I might add, more likely to have lost their tag or been places the scanner might have missed. HT

[grassfarmer]

Unfortunately the "normal" records and existing system equate to having no records and no system in the face of a FMD type disease outbreak.
I guess some folk just won't believe that until they experience it first hand.

[Happytrails]

Am I the only one who wonders why someone would blindly trust an unproven concept and at the same time trash a branding and inspection system that has always done the job? Guess it proves the rule that the greatest enemy of truth is conviction. HT

[per]

The greatest enemy of truth is perception. Status quo is simply not working for me. I wanted to test in 2004 but the status quo folks won the day. I am willing to try and am trying other things but my little niche in the industry is not long term viable if there is no industry. Just looking for answers here that challenge the status quo.

[grassfarmer]

The point is it has and is being proven and used elsewhere. The unpalatable truth for you HT is that to make your branding system work it would need to be mandatory too - would you approve of that? It can't work if only 50% of the cattle are branded.
As I've said before I have cows wearing a number of different brands all inspected through the auction when I bought them at dispersals. When I cull them I have to provide proof of purchase to get my cheque and very often the brand on the cattle doesn't match the paperwork. I just send in a copy of the purchase invoice that I know the cow belonged to and get paid every time. The system clearly doesn't work - if a guy wanted to cheat it to launder stolen cows what would there be to stop them?

I Remember the first BSE case in 2003 when they tried to find the origin of the cow with the disease - following the paper trail of a put together herd carrying numerous brands that had been in and out of various herds and community grazing pastures was a nightmare. In the end they certainly couldn't find and prove all the contacts, cohorts of the cow in question and it took weeks and weeks. If you have a FMD outbreak you might have scores of cases spread around the country multiplying rapidly - you just don't have the time for this rigmarole, the logistics overcome you.

[RShields]

And before they even start to trace the borders will close for as long as they want to play protectionist games and tracibility will make no difference. JMHO.

[SADIE]

Got away for the weekend and saw this thread got legs

Closing arguments at the June 15 hearing we tried to offer constructive solutions. I spent time with Brad Wildamen at PoundMaker past pres of CCA and 2nd chairman of the CCIA (3 yr term)about constructive approach to offer.

Defenses closing arguments:
1) The RFID tag is a short-term tag so lets use it that way. RFID when animal changes hands close to time of leaving herd ie Fall sale barn, Cull cow cull bull. (if keeping this RFID system).

2)Reconsider for the Cow calf sector, who petitioned the CCIA to use the non-RFID Ketchum #2 Curlock in the Cow herds. Can we relook at this avenue again. THe Meat coucil members of the CCIA--(Packing houses) didn't want metal at the Kill floor level---look at the Male buttons now---lots of steel in those centers). Slaughter houses can hire one person to cut off the ear with metal so they don't end up in rendering.

3)Short-term is make all community pastures "tagging stations" but back off on RFID and scanners at those places.---When the cow leaves those ranches---RFID put in place--changing ownership.

4)THe whole concept of RE-TAGGING was presented and this was demonstrated to be total different event than Tagging.

Re-tagging older animals BULLS AND COWS and BISON are very difficult causing animal distress and application difficulties.

5)The system of CFIA implementation and 0 tolerance has to be re-looked at. CFIA personnel and system have to become accountable.

6)CCIA has to become accountable. Quality control on all tagging companies have to be implemented. Lots of cases of faulty tags to cow-calf sector, the company came in and gave out more RFID tags, pliers and commented don't let CCIA know about this.

Enough information on this reply.

[grassfarmer]

Re closing the border - I believe that is an OIE rule in the case of an FMD outbreak.

[kato]

It may only be known in Manitoba, but in the case of any kind of disease outbreak one of the first doors to be shut will be on #1 highway at the Manitoba Ontario border. This is the one place in the whole country where there is no alternate route between east and west. The country will be effectively cut in half within minutes. It's already set up.