Winter feeding

[cowman]

I am feeding my cows 24 lbs. native hay and about 15 lbs of good 2 row barley straw. They seem to be doing exceptionally well on it. I believe that in a drought year feed has a lot more nutrition in it than in a wet year. These cows are actually putting on weight I think. They weigh in that 1400 lb. range.
I haven't got my feed tests back yet. I have some greenfeed that I had to get tested for nitrates so I tested everything. You have to go through a private lab now as Alberta Ag. doesn't have this service anymore.TDN, protein, and nitrate testing $39/sample. Does this sound reasonable? I think it used to be $10 for TDN and protein a few years ago when Ag. did it.
Have any of you noticed that the feed you have seems to have a lot of bang for your buck this year?

[jmillang]

Actually the feed tests that I have seen this year have been the opposite, they are generally lower in quality. What has help tremendously has been the nice fall and even mild winter so far. The warmer temperatures have allowed the cattle to gain condition based on traditional feeding regimes. Looking around central Alberta most cows are in pretty good condition considering how poor conditions the pastures are.

There is nothing better to getting your feeds tested so you can save that expensive feed for the rest of the winter. In your case cowman maybe switch the proportions of straw and hay if they cows are gaining too much for your liking.

[pandiana]

We ran the entire herd over the scale this past week and compared weights from weaning. It is rather a mixed bag. Our cows, and bred heifers are doing very well. First calf heifers are doing so so. For some reason, the older calves are doing much better than the younger calves (ADG older bulls 3.0 to 4.0, heifers 2.5 to 3.0 lbs/day: younger 2.5 to 2.8 and 2.0 to 2.4 respectively). It could be competition as they are penned together.

I also have pretty good feed this year, good haylage and some good bales but also trying to use up some rather poor two year old hay.

[cowman]

Jeff: well I might just do that but I suspect my cows might not be too impressed! Around 1990 I had a feed test done and it showed my protein was really poor. This was a dry year...don't quote me on 1990 as my memory isn't what it used to be!. Anyway my cows were FAT!!! I had all kinds of problems at calving time! Since then I've been pretty leery of fat cows!
And I agree, driving around I see a lot of cows in pretty good condition.

[gopher]

We test our feed for the cows every year and this year we have found the same as jmillang mentioned - the protein and DE are lower then normal. The worst was a 50 acre field of orchard grass that was well fertilized and irrigated. The protein was only 7% - usually runs 10% plus.
The surprise this year was the annual rye grass which was 12% and that was seeded with barley so the first cut went for silage. It was also irrigated but normally the protein is around 10%.
Generally our lab results show about a 1 to 1.5% decrease in mainly protein through out the rest of the fields. This may not be a true representation because all our hay land is irrigated and we only seed grass - no alfalfa.

[cowman]

Gopher: How much do you pay for a feed test? I suppose with irrigation you wouldn't need a nitrate test? Were you able to get enough water this year to keep your yields up? How much does it cost to irrigate an acre?

[gopher]

Cowman - I'll try to answer your questions without rambling on to much.
Cost of lab tests = $30.00 ( my tests included fiber, ME, protein, NEL, NO3-N and DE. ) This was a private lab in Lethbridge.
Yes, we do test for nitrates in irrigated forage crops, especially the green feed bales. I have a bad habit of starting to bale when the moisture content is borderline.
I find it strange that " irrigation " has never been a topic when it comes to raising livestock ! With intensive grazing and irrigation some of us "cowboy types" can turn out some fantastic numbers when it comes to the number of head per acre or pounds of beef per acre. Anyway - back to your question - Yes, we were some of the lucky ones that had ample water all season long. Our water comes from the Oldmam Dam and thank goodness there was a reserve there. Many of the farmers to the south and east of Lethbridge and really most of southern Alberta didn't have enough water. As for the cost of irrigation it varies from one irrigation district to another. In our area you pay an annual fee of 16.50/ac. if you use the water or not. This is called a " water rate ". Now for the right to have water delivered to your land, the cost is 250.00/ac. and this is a one time fee and is called " water rights " and stays with the land. On top of these costs there is the cost of energy to pump the water. On 1/4 sec. we use natural gas and my costs are approx, 10.00/ac per year and on another 1/4 sec. we use 3 phase power and the cost runs around 24.00/ac. per
year. Then you must add basic maintenance and depreciation costs.
It sounds a bit overwhelming. but it pencils out at the end of the year! I hope this sheds some light on " irrigation " for you and maybe there is someone else out there that would jump in and add their two bits worth.

[cowman]

Jeff Millang: I sort of took your advice and cut my cows back to 21 lbs./day. They seem to think I have done them a great wrong, but when I got my feed tests back it was the right thing to do!
My native grass was 9.9% protein and DE 2.69 MC/kg. After digging out my old Beef Herd Management binder and doing the calculations 21 lbs. is a lot closer to what they need. It will save me about
$15/day in feed costs or about $2250 for the rest of the winter.
I also have some CPS wheat greenfeed that tested 10.3% protein and 2.65 MC/kg. No nitrates.

[cowman]

Actually I calculated my savings wrong: I will save $22.50/day and $3375 for the year.

[laxdal]

Re: Feedtest costs.

We use feedmill pellets for backgrounding and post calving depending on the quality of our feed in a given year. All of the forage is tested, and sent to the lab thru the mill, they bill us $13.00 each. This gets us Moisture,Protien,ADF,NDF,RFV,DE,plus Cal,Phos,Mag and Pot and a few other.
This year the 3rd trimester cows (1400 lb) are getting 17lb of Grnfd (11.5% Protien)and 20lb of year old Barley straw (4% Protien).

[cowman]

laxdal: It would seem you have a lot better lab than me as I don't get any of the mineral things and still pay a lot more. Thanks for the info. How do you find feeding pellets as compared to hay or silage? What do you see as the advantages and the diadvantages? How about price? Thanks in advance.

[laxdal]

Cowman: We get the pellets and feed tests at Co-op Feeds in Calgary. They send the feed tests to Norwest Labs again in Calgary, and when thetests get back will calc rations, though I like to play with Cow Bytes at home.
The disadvantages of pellets are the pails and spoilage when they get wet. The advantages are:
-the Rumensin added gives us coccidiosis control on the calfing grounds,we start feeding it at the start of calfing.
-vitamins and minerals are control fed.
-the cattle are easier to handle, we feed the cows in a laneway so they will all come in when ever they are called, the close ones can be put in the barn in bad weather with just a tap on the bum or the wild one's calf can be tagged while she's busy eating.
The pellets were $180/tonne ($0.08/lb.)laid in and hay here is $150/ton ($0.07/lb.) so $ wise it seems to make sense. Fed at 4 or 5 lb per day Cow Bytes will cut back the hay portion of the ration by 1 or 2 lb.s so maybe it even saves money.

[cowman]

Laxdal: Is cow bytes worth the money? I'm not a big fan of"computer stuff" but my son is really into it. Sure sounds like you have a good system going for you.

[laxdal]

Cowman: Cow Bytes is $150 or a ton of hay and I'm sure it has saved more then that. It's handy to have all your feeds in front of you and be able to play around with a lb or two here and there and knowing your costs and whats in the yard. I think it may error on the high side a little though so leave out the waste calculation.
The end of my last note was wrong what I was trying to say was if you add 4 lb.s of pellets the program will subtract 5 lb.s of hay.