Cattle ID and traceability ----Australia update

[SADIE]

per

From the start I was and am in favor of individual animal ID. I wanted this as a herd management tool in my own herd. When RFID became available I thought there was a chance these would work. ID my cow-herd in 2005 and buy all my replacement bred females from one source with RFID coming in with them.

Traceability back to my farm-gate I was ready for that also. Our product we sell all steers to feedlots and I wanted data back on them. All heifers are sold as replacement females in the spring "going to grass".

Traceability when animals change ownership I was/am fully in favor of that also and will keep applying RFID "short-term tags" as close to the date they leave the premise of origin as possible. Mandatory "yes".

Traceability when they are going to PFRA pasture "not changing ownership" or for "every new Blade of grass they eat"--quoted in the cattleman by a reputable cattleman from Youngstown Alberta. I am not in favor of that at all. Mandatory "No"

Seeing huge tax $$$ being spent on scanners going into auction markets and now at PFRA pastures----I see at this time a total waste of $$$ when the retention problem is as huge as it is ---a real problem.

Sagewood--my time in this industry goes back also to when FMD hit Saskatchewan. In my years of beef cow-calf veterinary practice I had great group of forward thinking producers from East Central Alberta who would always demand to try new things like Vaccinations, ear-tags and other products first. But when there is a "flaw" or "default" in the system or program----Stop using that product. Don't continue to down the path until the system or flaw is corrected.

Can the Ketchum Curl-lock # 2 with RFID data be an improved animal ID with higher-retention? Can it have higher retention and also be a usable tool for the scanners at auction markets or in herd management ??

Per---The tag you mentioned that the state in Mexico developed. Is it RFID compatable? Can you give me a link or contact on that product?

[per]

Sadie I will have to dig through my notes to find an answer. I want to say no but I know they kept track of when they changed hands but I think it is an input system. I will get back to you. I am haying and playing too much lately.

[per]

Here is a link to his presentation. It looses something without the speaker.

http://www.internationallivestockid.com/files/Session-01-Ramirez.pdf

[Happytrails]

Must be getting close to a record for a thread Sadie...good going! I want to add a couple of replies.
To defend the statement that our cowherd is the healthiest in the world one only has to consider the environment they live in. They spend every night of the year under the stars and survive a yearly temperature range of at least 80 C. The sick ones are dead, the live ones are healthy.
Sagewood, I think you are close to the real reason that the authorities are pushing the scanning bluff when you ask how we know if cattle are ID tagged. The button tag is virtually impossible to see if attached properly (close the the head). So the bureaucrats that BSE invited into our industry have decided to go for full scanning to solve the problem of identifying untagged cattle. What number a cow has isn't important to them as long as she has one. There has got to be a better way to find untagged cattle than making the auction markets scan them in and out.
That solution will only work until the markets disappear and the cattle are back doored into feedlots. They will, of course, do the ID tagging. What kind of traceability will we have then?
HT

[grassfarmer]

HT, I noticed you changed your claim a bit - from having the "healthiest cattle herd" in the world to the "healthiest cowherd" in world. Was that to cover up for the appalling level of sickness and drug treatment that goes on when the majority of calves are weaned cold turkey into the auction and shipped to the feedlot resulting in what - 70% treatment rates? Far from a "high health status" cattle production system.
Cows can live quite happily in the dry climate here for sure but don't kid yourself that it's a tough climate for cattle. If you don't believe me try running cows outdoors in a "raw,wet" climate - with considerable wind exposure and 120 inch rainfall.

You seem confused on one of the reasons for introducing the EIDs - packer convenience. Don't you remember all the complaints of how long it took them to clean and manually read the bar code tags? That can end the debate on ketchum metal tags right here - we ain't going back because the packers wouldn't accept it. And the packers own the Government by all accounts.

[SADIE]

gf--

Mr. Paul Laronde mentioned that to me when I first talked to him a couple of weeks ago now.

"what do you think of the Ketchum Curl-lock #2 eartag? Ketchum company just came to him with a tag that is RFID compatable".

Again the circle has been completed.

The Hot iron brand---or Ketchum Eartag.

[per]

Curl lock is not infallible either. My cows have both and retention rates are similar. Neither have been bad for me. I have never lost a brand.

[grassfarmer]

"Curl lock is not infallible either. My cows have both and retention rates are similar. Neither have been bad for me." Ditto per.
As for hot branding, what a media relations disaster that would be - imagine making that mandatory in this day and age. "Enforced animal cruelty" headlines and our beef could maybe get banned from a few other countries. But of course you guys don't want mandatory anything - yet without that you have no credibility as a traceability system. Rather than the circle being complete it's around and around we go heading nowhere.

[per]

A bunch of individuals running a race in the forrest with no compass not realizing which side of the trees the moss grows on. As a management tool the brand is readable from a distance and is very useful when a big mix up happens with the neighbors. In moose country that happens more than one would like. Moose and bear lack respect for fences.

[Kathy]

grassfarmer: "But of course you guys don't want
mandatory anything - yet without that you have no
credibility as a traceability system. "

When the heck did I lose my credibility,
grassfarmer? When the heck did the consumer
demand traceability?

We all know where this "traceability" concept has
come from (OIE and multinational corporations),
along with our government's naive approval.

I run a cattle operation that has terrific credibility.
The "industry as a whole" wants to ride on the tails
of ranchers that do things in a more
environmentally friendly way (aka turning grass into
meat, note past ABP public relations programs,
almost always based on the primary producer); This
demonstrates that the cow-calf guy is more
respected than any other part of the beef-food
chain.

I am personally sick and tired of the squabble over
tags and traceability.... what on Earth does it have
to do with animal health, in the sense, how does it
guarantee anything, when some members of this
industry would deceive and manipulate their
mothers if they could make an extra dollar per
head. If a person's credibility is now reliant upon
this OIE system, then there is no point in using
independent Canadian ranchers to produce our
beef; bring in the cheap labor from Mexico etc. and
have a few vets check the farms out once in a while,
make sure they are filling out the paper work
correctly.

If you want the consumer to trust your food
product, you have to trust it yourself. Philosophical
differences as what is considered "safe" and what
isn't, will forever divide us. I do not want to be
forced/mandated down a path of animal husbandry
that I personally do not feel is safe - just to have
some sort of collective image projected to the
clueless consumers. Once I sell my cattle, the new
buyer is free to handle them as he wishes; but,
while I still own my cattle... I will manage their
health in the way I see best. Having the
government tell me how to raise my cattle (which is
coming with this whole traceability/control
scheme)... will end up pushing a lot of respectable
producers out of the business.