Cattle ID and traceability ----Australia update

[SADIE]

gf--

Mr. Paul Laronde mentioned that to me when I first talked to him a couple of weeks ago now.

"what do you think of the Ketchum Curl-lock #2 eartag? Ketchum company just came to him with a tag that is RFID compatable".

Again the circle has been completed.

The Hot iron brand---or Ketchum Eartag.

[per]

Curl lock is not infallible either. My cows have both and retention rates are similar. Neither have been bad for me. I have never lost a brand.

[grassfarmer]

"Curl lock is not infallible either. My cows have both and retention rates are similar. Neither have been bad for me." Ditto per.
As for hot branding, what a media relations disaster that would be - imagine making that mandatory in this day and age. "Enforced animal cruelty" headlines and our beef could maybe get banned from a few other countries. But of course you guys don't want mandatory anything - yet without that you have no credibility as a traceability system. Rather than the circle being complete it's around and around we go heading nowhere.

[per]

A bunch of individuals running a race in the forrest with no compass not realizing which side of the trees the moss grows on. As a management tool the brand is readable from a distance and is very useful when a big mix up happens with the neighbors. In moose country that happens more than one would like. Moose and bear lack respect for fences.

[Kathy]

grassfarmer: "But of course you guys don't want
mandatory anything - yet without that you have no
credibility as a traceability system. "

When the heck did I lose my credibility,
grassfarmer? When the heck did the consumer
demand traceability?

We all know where this "traceability" concept has
come from (OIE and multinational corporations),
along with our government's naive approval.

I run a cattle operation that has terrific credibility.
The "industry as a whole" wants to ride on the tails
of ranchers that do things in a more
environmentally friendly way (aka turning grass into
meat, note past ABP public relations programs,
almost always based on the primary producer); This
demonstrates that the cow-calf guy is more
respected than any other part of the beef-food
chain.

I am personally sick and tired of the squabble over
tags and traceability.... what on Earth does it have
to do with animal health, in the sense, how does it
guarantee anything, when some members of this
industry would deceive and manipulate their
mothers if they could make an extra dollar per
head. If a person's credibility is now reliant upon
this OIE system, then there is no point in using
independent Canadian ranchers to produce our
beef; bring in the cheap labor from Mexico etc. and
have a few vets check the farms out once in a while,
make sure they are filling out the paper work
correctly.

If you want the consumer to trust your food
product, you have to trust it yourself. Philosophical
differences as what is considered "safe" and what
isn't, will forever divide us. I do not want to be
forced/mandated down a path of animal husbandry
that I personally do not feel is safe - just to have
some sort of collective image projected to the
clueless consumers. Once I sell my cattle, the new
buyer is free to handle them as he wishes; but,
while I still own my cattle... I will manage their
health in the way I see best. Having the
government tell me how to raise my cattle (which is
coming with this whole traceability/control
scheme)... will end up pushing a lot of respectable
producers out of the business.

[DogPatch]

Grassfarmer

"the lack of sheep here which were the biggest spreader of the disease in the UK."

It wasn't that the sheep were disease infested as you suggest, but rather the Government programing that was in place that encouraged the buying and selling of sheep, for the sole purpose of collecting subsidies. I know this sounds confusing, but if I find the reference I will post it here. I gathered that there was a subsidy in-place that had people buying up large amounts of sheep, collecting the payment, and then unloading the sheep at auction, most likely miles away where they were not known. As a result there was a lot of animals moving all around the country and this hastened the movement of the disease, likely only from one or 2 infected farms.

Another factor that didn't help were communal pasture (Community pastures) where there is co-mingling.

Another cause of the rapid movement of the disease was the Public Access rules that allowed hikers etc to freely pass through private property. Obviously this could become a vector for diseases like H&M

[grassfarmer]

Dogpatch,

If I can maybe shed some light for you on the UK system and F M problem. There was no Government program encouraging buying and selling of sheep. There was a long standing system of "headage" payments on breeding sheep which entailed a "retention period" to qualify but this was not a factor in the F M outbreak as it started during a retention period, at the time of year when animals were heavily pregnant so they weren't being traded. Rather like the beef cow trade in Western Canada in March-April - very few being traded.
The sheep being traded at that time of year were at seasonal low levels and were mainly fattened young sheep going to market. There is a fair bit of movement to different auctions because it is a small country with lots of auction marts. We had 7 within 50 miles of us. It just so happened that the sheep at the start of the outbreak moved through the countries largest throughput mart - Longtown and as a result spread far and wide. Dealers buying sheep for further fattening brought the disease home with them.
The communal pasture wasn't really a factor either as it tends to be used more in summer and folk would have the sheep closer to home with it being late winter. Also the communal pasture isn't quite the same as your community pasture as the grazers tend to all live adjoining the pasture (usually a large scale unfenced mountain grazing) rather than trucking the animals in from all over.
The big thing about the sheep spreading the disease is that there are areas where literally every field has sheep in it for miles and miles. Cattle, hogs etc are wintered indoors there so are less risk of spreading it but again they claim much was wind spread.

If you are really looking for the cause of that outbreak it pays to delve a little deeper. It was detected in hogs at a slaughter plant first - and traced back to a sloppy hog farm that the authorities already had concerns about. The official theory was that it had spread from the hogs by air to sheep grazing surrounding pastures that were then trucked to auction. What came to light later was that the Ministry of Agriculture officials had done a welfare inspection on the hog farm a month or so before the outbreak and found it in a disgraceful state - garbage everywhere, dead animals lying around etc. What was really interesting though was there is video evidence from the officials own camera showing a dog gnawing on a sheep carcase in the background of one shot. This was a hog only farm and it emerged later that the sheep carcases had been hauled onto the hog farm from pastures a few miles further away. The pasture the dead sheep came from was close to a Government owned farm - a demonstration farm rather than an experimental one but the suspicion remains. I believe studies of the earliest diseased sheep (around the hog farm) showed they had it before the hogs did but haven't seen proof of that.
I've watched the video footage on the internet but can't find the video any longer - it is mentioned in this article in "Farmers Weekly" though - http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2005/05/13/16524/Video-raises-FMD-theory-doubts.htm

[rkaiser]

Guess I have to throw in my two bits on this thread.... Kathy had some very good points and I tend to agree with her about the credibility issue of primary producers. We have built an ever expending business in Calgary with consumers who simply trust our little value chain.

I look at the ID issue as a cost of doing business in a country with an unfix able conventional beef industry, but also a country with conditions "somewhat" favorable for those who chose an unconventional route.

The only thing the traceability thing can do for either marketing route is find the shortest path to the incinerator for a cow herd caught with some blasted disease.

Even though we can trace each of our individual animals to it's farm of origin, our customers could not really give a rats ass. They trust us. And that trust is growing. Should have store number 4 open in Calgary this fall and heading to Edmonton shortly there after.

Lots more news that we would rather not share with the multinational packer lovers who tend to float around on this site as well as us non conformists....LOL

Have a great day all
Randy

[per]

Good on you Randy. Here's a question from one non conformist that still is trying to "fix" the commodity beef sector (eternal optimist) to one that used to try but has happily moved on.

Should we all move on? Butting heads with different ideals and personalities is getting old (most likely for both heads). Maybe it is time to put the toolbox on the accelerator and jump. If the industry is unfixable going to my own value chain happy place like you kinda make some sense. It would give me more time to work on my long standing and soon to be greater relationship with Altalink.

[sagewood]

per, I see you are dealing with Altalink also. Could you give me a quick email and let me know what story they are telling you? They have shocked a number of us in this area by altering their route dramatically and going across wet land areas and through dugouts and so forth-one map showed them putting the line between my calving barn and my quonset--down the middle of my driveway!!!--we are attemtping to fight them off, but are desparate for help as we are all rather lost and uninformed at this time.

My email is 'sagewood@efirehose.net'. Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.

[rkaiser]

We all gotta take our turn per..... You know --- the goose thing. Honk from the back for a while and then move up to the front of the V formation. It's not that I have left the fold all together, just trying different approaches from time to time. Still determined to see a payout from the class action suit and trying --- yes trying --- to work with the folks who do give a shit in the ABP CCA ranks. Yes there are some who truly want to see ALL cattle producers in a better postion.

[SADIE]

sagewood and per--Dealing with Alta link.---I already responded to sagewood by email but will include a comment to both here. Your neighbours should try to contact CAEPLA and have them speak to you and your neighbours. The key people are in Alberta now. Presently organizing landowners along the new proposed Gateway from Edmonton to Kitimat but have also had meetings with landowners regarding power projects in the Medicine Hat area and Hardisty areas. www.CAEPLA----Dave Core CEO
When haying is caught up will try to finalize this thread on situation in Australia ----great discussion again today with CCIA technical personnel Paul Laronde---.

[DogPatch]

Thank you Grassfarmer. I knew that it was something like you said. I guess I took offense to the statement that sheep caused the problem, and that we wouldn't see that problem in Canada as we don't have that many. Guess I read things on a bad day.

[SADIE]

Final comments hopefully to close off this threat.

1)Austrailia mainland is made up of 5 states and 3 territories. With Tasmania that is another state. All states are reported to have cattle.

2)Discussion with CCIA technical REP Paul Laronde--Waterloo Ontario.

The problem tags that are now coming into him from various herds. These tags are found when a producer notices missing tags is spring of fall. They look closer at the remaining tags in the animals---usually the cow-herd. The break is a definate pattern. They break off at the "Washer" area the centre of the male button. Those are removed and sent to CCIA technical person. P.Laronde@canadaid.ca or 519 884-7598.

3)The faulty tag data is being presented to the CCIA board in Calgary shorty.

4)Appears that there is a plastic curlock tag from a company being looked at? It means a NEW APPLICATOR---Apparently it holds the tags in a magazine as each tag is applied. Again being presented to the CCIA board in Calgary.

There will be producers that have experienced loss tags will check closer to the tags in remaining animals for breaks at the centre of the male button area.

Once a producer has sent those faulty tags to CCIA tech in Waterloo Ontario the tagging companies---one in particular that has a very high market share seems quite obliging to get out and replace faulty tags on those ranches.

Should be interesting at trade shows this fall. Edmonton, Red Deer, Saskatoon Fall Fair, Agribition, Brandon etc.

These comments are factual and hopefully will close off this thread.