BSE Petition update....

[kato]

Got some good news today.

Our tireless campaigner, burnt called and said that he has heard from the office of Larry Miller, Conservative MP, and head of the Standing Committee on Agriculture. He shall take the petition to the floor of the House for debate. Not just read it, take it for debate. Big difference.

This is the best response ever from a Conservative MP, and can only be good news. We've already been in touch with a number of members of the Standing Committee, and they, being opposition members have already committed to helping in our quest for justice. As well, other MP's have said they'd read the petition on the floor too.

So this is where we stand. We've got some attention from people who have the ability to help us.

Now it's up to us to follow up. All of us. Anyone who has lost their cows, lost their farm, lost their futures, lost their next generation to jobs in town, and lost the work of a lifetime to this debacle known as BSE needs to take the next step.

It's time to contact our MP's and let them know what's going on. When this debate comes up, it's up to us to make sure our MP's are knowledgeable enough to debate it properly. It's time to let them know that just because this happened in 2003, it's not over yet.

Even in Alberta.

We ALL still live with the hangover. We live with higher processing costs, restricted trade, loss of competition for our cattle, and an ever more concentrated packing industry. These are things that all trace their roots to the fallout from BSE. Anyone who doesn't think that MCOOL, for instance has anything to do with the BSE issue is fooling themselves. If not for BSE, this trade restriction disguised as a labeling law would never have gotten the traction it needed to pass.

So we ALL need to take this opportunity to get a little justice and put that extra little bit of effort into talking to our MP's and letting them know that this has affected ALL of us, in EVERY province, and that we all know that it didn't have to happen like it did.

[littledoggie]

With a federal election looming somewhere on the horizon, you would think that the Conservatives would be all over this since the BSe debacle occurred while the Liberals were in power.

[kato]

Perhaps they will be. That would be OK.

Or perhaps the Liberals will choose to help us push for mediation in order to get it off the election platform. Which would also be a good thing.

mmmm..... the plot thickens.

[kato]

Correction... in 1990, when this really started, it was under the watch of Brian Mulroney and his Conservatives.

so the plot is still thick... LOL

[kato]

Ha! got it wrong again. The first cow was in 1993, and it was Chretien who gets the credit. I gotta go get some coffee and get the cobwebs out.

[Kathy]

Kato, the law suit over BSE losses between the ranchers and government will not address any of the problems we are dealing with today. Once this cat was let out of the bag, it won't be put back in. To my understanding, the lawsuite and any potential settlement is for cash to off-set losses from the BSE crisis. Many have already received cash for this purpose. Any settlement will likely see the previously received cash deducted from the amount owing.

Point being, it appears to me, that people are putting to much stock in some miraculous outcome of a settlement. This won't stop the CFIA or BSE zealots from continuing to fear-monger and impose their standards (like the OIE) on our industry.

I don't know how you expect your MPs to explain the cases of BSE in Alberta where the animals were not exposed to MBM type products. Are you hooked on the 'story' about the purposeful(Canadian) feed contamination spreading on some message boards?

I wish you all the best in your efforts, but I hope you don't have your hopes to high for an outcome consisting of anything more than a little cash and no explanation, end of issue. Once a settlement is reached, BSE will never be redressed by government again.

[kato]

It may not address some of the problems we're having today, but it will address the problem of financial hardship that is still going on outside the borders of Alberta. In Manitoba, imposed standards and zealous bureaucrats fall far behind going broke in the big scheme of things right now. You should be hearing the stories I've been hearing over the summer. It's nothing short of a crime.

As for that purposeful contamination conspiracy theory, that's exactly what it is, a conspiracy theory. We've got more important things to do than worry about some guy running around the internet with some wild story and no hard evidence.

We've been learning a lot during this exercise. First, the lawsuit is 50% financial loss based, and 50% for stress and loss of enjoyment of life. That puts half of a settlement right out of the picture as far as deductions for help received already. Second, maybe in Alberta there has been help received that actually made a difference, but in most other provinces, any assistance to date has not even put a dent in the losses.

On our operation, which is not a big one by many standards, even if we got the maximum quoted in the lawsuit, which is $200,000.00, with the couple of agstability payments we got way back at the beginning added to it, we would still not cover our losses. Having assistance received taken into consideration would not affect us at all. And from what I've bee hearing from others in Manitoba at least, it wouldn't have an effect on them either.

I resent the fact that there were jokes around about how leaving the cow herd to the children is nothing but child abuse. I resent the fact that the good reputation of Canadian beef, which we've all worked so hard over the years to maintain was dragged through the muck by self centered protectionist groups. I resent the fact that none of this had to happen.

I do not want to be sitting telling my grandchildren stories about how we used to live on a farm and had real live cows, but sat back and did nothing to protect it from being destroyed. I don't want to have to look them in the eye and tell them we didn't care enough to try. Even if nothing comes of it, at least we got off our duffs and gave a damn.

end of rant. Gotta go pick tomatoes before it freezes.

[burnt]

Woohooof! By golly Kato, I think it's gonna hafta get awfully cold around your place tonight before you get frost after that rant! hahaha!

But you spoke the truth. Had the government followed the protocol recommended by the British government, we might well have avoided this whole financial fiasco.

If they believed it would be helpful to enact a complete feed ban, then they should have done it in the '80's and '90's when the British veterinarians TOLD them to NOT let our British imports out of sight.

One British vet said in a letter to a Cdn. vet in Agriculture Canada's Transmissible Disease Department ". . . The handwriting is on the wall for the beef industry of any country [that has imported cattle from Britain and not enacted a total feed ban . . .]

Obviously, not the exact words in the brackets, but certainly close enough to make the point. I can produce the text of the letter.

Since the gov't eventually brought into effect the previously recommended steps, it is clear evidence of earlier negligence and an unspoken admission of liability on their part for the damages sustained by the industry since that time.

Now here's the part that really burns my ass. The CFIA (federal government) regularly comes out with all kinds of (often unreasonable) hoops and hurdles for our industry to try and jump through. (Ear tag issues, anyone?)

Now, I don't have to tell you what kind of repercussions there can be for non-compliance.

They will take you to the cleaners for not buckling under their "God-like" authority. You are nothing but a twig to be broken.

Spill a bit of fuel or chemical - it's like you just set off a conflagration. You'd be a fool to do the mandatory reporting.

Bulldoze some dirt near a stream bank and you have Fisheries and Oceans swarming your property looking for minnows in the almost dry creek bed.

It's happening as we speak less than 10 miles from here at a friend's farm. BIG fine to pay and in the end he will have huge additional expenses to do the same job he set out to do.

The list goes on.

And these same rotten SOB's are trying to duck out of a mess they created and could well have prevented?

I don't know about the rest of the beef industry, but I am going to do my best to hold the government to the same set of standards that they want to shove down my throat.

If it's sauce to the goose, it's sauce to the gander.

No chance of frost here tonight either, eh, Kato?

[kato]

You got that right.

[smcgrath76]

I think there is significant damage to
the industry. AB is predicting going
from 2.4 million cows to 1.25 in 2012.
I think a lot of the people who would be
needing aid, have already quit the deal.
I am reasonably comfortable with the
feed transmission theory, although I
think there are other extenuating
factors involved that change susceptibility, regionality, etc.
I know BSE greatly accelerated the
concentration of the beef industry in
Canada. I am not sure how we sort
through that ongoing source of loss.
Quite frankly I think conventional
thinking and draconian responses may
have crippled us to domestic status.
Perhaps in the next 20 years we will
have some new visionaries step forward
in leadership. Currently I feel we have
a lot of conventional thought with the
only thought being to protect position,
and/or preserve equity, without
realizing the best way to increase the
value of the equity is to step out into
the world and make it desirable.
In a world where the political system is
run by lawyers, I am not sure a lawsuit
isn't the very best way to get attention
in a way that elected officials can
actually understand.
I do however think that as far as saving
the industry the government is a waste
of time. It will take focused, long
term, self-determination at an
individual operation and cooperation at
a like minded producer level. To me the
industry level approaches (SAVE THE
INDUSTRY!!!) are a waste of time and
effort, other than potentially lobbying
for enabling rather than castrating
legislation/regulation. Prairie oysters
anyone???

[wd40]

Feed ban or not - there was clear evidence of cover-up from within the lab in Edmonton that the original sample was contaminated with in house BSE material.

It's all just theory.

[Kathy]

I don't mean to be a Debbie-downer on this subject. I am looking past the petition and lawsuit, myself. I have spent many years now looking at the science that has put us in this fix, and the politics that has followed the infectious science without questioning it. Ralph Klein seemed to know more than he was allowed to tell.

There are very few cow-calf producers that benefitted in any substantial way from government payments. As for Albertans vs. the rest of Canada, we have a corrupt AB government that will throw money at the "rural vote" to keep us quiet and subdued.

I am not comfortable with the feed transmission experiments. I can't believe the lack of scientific inquiry into the chemical make-up of the prions and "brain homogenate" used to artificially induce disease in laboratory settings.

I spent my time and effort assisting Mark Purdey with his scientific investigations of the environments where these TSEs were occurring. Something that only a small group of researchers has even attempted.

There is no solice for me in a cash payment for my suffering, if the lawsuit is based on the Meat and Bone Meal 'infectious prion' hypothesis.

One of my (long-shot) hopes, is that should the lawsuit succeed, after the dust settles, some real investigations into the elemental make up of the so-called infectious materials and brain samples will evolve and the truth of cause might see the light of day (toxic metal contamination of the brain).

There is a similar direct correlation now between those fighting for the "liberation treatment" for MS. Those suffering are the ones pushing for this treatment option, even though the federal government of Canada refuses to fund clinical trials. Those directly affected by the disease are not blind to the fact that a blocked vein results in the build up of toxins and iron, etc, within the brain. This simple plumbing problem, impaired outflow, is an obvious problem that Government and the MS Society won't acknowledge because it makes them look stupid for not seeing it sooner/and for themselves. [Note: it may not be the only cause of MS] The difference in our BSE case and the MS case is people with MS are looking for an actual remedy which might help a substantial number of folks recover (even if only partially). The BSE petition and potential settlement will be used by many as a way out of the business, further consolidating land in large corporate farms. I hope I'm wrong here but unless the price we receive for our cattle increases to a profitable and sustainable level, the path for future generations in ranching is grim. Maybe some of the settlement cash can be put to good use by paying for private scientific experiments to actually analyse affected brains (like deer with CWD). The Sask. Light Synchrotron could easily be used to analyse these brains for toxic metals; however, due to the highly infectious hype, they are scared to do it in their facility.

[burnt]

Kathy, I understand what you are getting at and am not closed to your ideas about transmission and infectivity.

Who am I to question anyone else's work in matters in which I have only a negligible amount of knowledge?

What does strike me as I think about your view on this matter is that we both share a common interest - that of holding the government accountable on a very serious issue that the government has badly mishandled.

Thus, I will work toward what I see as a proper resolution to my immediate and general concerns in this matter, just as you will do for your interests.

[kato]

Asking to "save the industry" is not going to do anything IMHO. It has already been written off. You can tell that by the reluctance to do anything to address the so called farm support programs. The political will is not there. They are letting nature take it's course, so to speak.

The problem is that this intentional contraction in Canadian cow herd is going to go to far. We can already see plants closing, and competition for our cattle getting more and more difficult to find. Are there going to be any cattle left to fill these regained export markets? It's not looking good.

In the future, I wouldn't be surprised to see three sources for Canadian consumers to buy their beef. Either they know a farmer, and get it direct, or they get it at the store with a choice of one Canadian source, or they eat imported beef. And for cattle producers, they'll be producing commodity cattle under contract for that one processor at the price they are told they are going to get, or they will be small producers selling direct. The average mid sized family run cattle operation will be history.

The request should not be "save the industry". It should be "save the family farm". That's what's at stake here.

Doing the right thing and allowing compensation for this whole BSE fiasco is a good, non-countervailable way to give those same farms a boost, while helping restore some confidence that this country actually does value it's food producers.

And if any cattle producers don't agree that it's a good thing, then they can always opt out, and leave it to those who do.

[grassfarmer]

We get what we vote for Kato - and the average western Canadian rancher appears to want the status quo - they apparently believe in the illusion that they call a "free enterprise" or "free market" system and wouldn't want it any other way. Mentioning that you think we should save "the family farm" instantly allies you with those old Communist guys, the NFU, and we couldn't have that could we? They'd rather allow unfettered corporate imperialism by the likes of the Nilsson Bros than dare to raise your voice in association with an organisation with the word "union" in it.