BSE Petition update....

[kato]

I think people out here are still voting for the old Conservative party of days gone by. That party is gone, and only the name remains, IMHO. The tradition was that the PC party was pro-agriculture, and pro-rural Canada. I don't see much evidence of that any more.

The party changed, and the voters didn't notice. Maybe some day the light will come on.

Or not...... in which case, we get what we deserve. The main support under a democracy is the fact that the citizens have a responsibility to demand accountability from their elected officials. If we chose to ignore that responsibility, then whatever happens is as much our fault as theirs.

And we will get exactly what we deserve.

[burnt]

Many people mistakenly believe that once they have cast their ballot, their job is finished until the next election.

Wrong.

Once elected, politicians need to have deliberate and clear direction from their constituents.

Not that I believe that we still really have a true democracy anymore, but if the people whine and complain in the coffee shops and never pick up the phone to talk to their MP's, then they will get exactly the response from government that they deserve.

I am appalled at the apathy and sense of helplessness that beef farmers have shown in this matter.

I guess it's a sad commentary of the human condition to sink into defeatism and believe that we have no power.

We are not made to be puppets so get up and act on your own. You will be surprised at the outcome.

[rkaiser]

I really like the part about using the money to take responsibility for our own futures. When we do get the payment ---- most will still simply see it as helping out for years of losses, or in many cases, a trip to Mexico. If --- however --- the money were used to take back some control of our industry, grassfarmer, Kathy and Kato could all be happy campers. There are enough minds out there starting the process of change from a grass roots level. If they had a bit of dough in their pockets, --- like a few Billion ---- I think they could do a lot.

And your fight could continue as well Kathy --- as the first cat out of the bag could be recognition of responsibility.

[kato]

As the saying goes, "success breeds success". If we were to be successful in this matter, maybe it would inspire others to take some responsibility, and address all the other many issues we have.

Maybe, just maybe, a light bulb would come on somewhere, and people would realize that they do have some say in what the future of this wonderful world of agriculture can be.

We are making progress. I've been learning that there are good people in our government who would really like to help cattle producers out, but quite frankly they don't know what to do. They live under fear of countervail, and out of fear of the type of debacle that happened back in 03 where the wrong people got all the money. To avoid those things, paralysis has set in.

And we pay the price.

So it's up to us to all get involved or suffer the consequences. We need to wipe the slate clean and start again. Addressing the damages done by BSE is a good start. For many, just the psychological effect of thinking there is some justice in this world could be enough to stop the stampede out of the cow business.

There is such a feeling of hopelessness, at least in our province, that it's going to take a lot of reassurance that we actually do count in the big scheme of things to turn this around now. Better prices this fall are not going to stop it. Lots have been waiting for these prices so they could get out with their shirts still on their backs.

I am sick of being asked "Why haven't you sold your cows yet?"

[smcgrath76]

The countervail issue is an interesting
one. As the cowherd comes down in size,
the issue/risk of countervailability
declines accordingly as we become less
export dependent, however in my mind it
would also have the impact of reducing
domestic prices received by producers
since competition for cattle would be
even further reduced.
I think our issue is still that we
compete on price in a perfectly
competitive business with an oligopoly
of buyers.

[grassfarmer]

Why would competition be reduced with declining supply? I certainly wouldn't expect it to increase unless we went to substantially below domestic demand levels but I would expect it to remain about the same. 2 buyers equals 2 buyers whatever the supply.
I think the correct term is oligopsony rather than oligopoly.

[kato]

Except that one of those buyers has no real stake or interest in this country. Supply declines to the point where the price goes up, it's simple to just walk out the door and switch to cheaper cost of production countries where they already have facilities anyway.

The world market is in a race to the bottom. As long as there are places with lower costs of production, multinationals who by their nature have no loyalty to anyone but the shareholder will go where the money is. They will have no regrets, and not a second thought for the destruction left behind.

[burnt]

Oh c'mon kato. Where are you getting your information? Our producer orgs won't tell you that . . .

[PureCountry]

If you want to get serious about selling beef, the first and most reliable market one wants to target is a domestic one.

Example:
Lots of people in the city ask us to bring eggs when we bring their meat order. We tell them, all our eggs are sold in our hometown locally, so why truck them to Edmonton?

Doesn't it make more sense to sell as much product as you can locally? I feel that the only way this BSE payback will be a worthwhile fight, is if producers take the money and use it to form networks/alliances to direct market more beef from farm gate to consumer plate. Be it on-farm Co-Op type abbattoirs or retail outlets, if we sell a pound of beef to a local consumer it's a pound of beef that Industrial Beef Inc is NOT selling. It's also a pound of beef that wasn't trucked across country and/or flown/floated over oceans.

There is no stronger nation that one that can feed itself. We as beef producers have got to wake up to the reality that a feedlot-type beef industry is not sustainable, nor is exporting food across oceans. That is not fantasy or belief, it is fact.

[kato]

The feedlot based industry is dependent on calves from .... where? From cow herds. And where are the cow herds? Disappearing, that's where.

Unless something happens to put some profit and hope for the future back into cow calf producers, and stop the liquidation, the whole house of cards will fall.

[PureCountry]

I want to see hope and profit for other farmers Kato, I really do. However, I don't want to see farmers get a good year or 2 and get lulled into complacency again, producing more beef for feedlots for packers for retailers that is a totally unsustainable system. If you get $700 per calf every fall and feel you're making a living, and the feedlot guy makes $100 per head on the fat animal, and the packer makes $50 per hook on the carcass, and the retailer makes $1 per pound on the beef, and everyone is happy, you still have to remember that it is all unsustainable in it's present form. So why keep doing it?

I understand the fight for a class action settlement present day. I am well aware of the work that's gone into it and it's motives. I am trying to point out something entirely different though. I agree, let's get our payout and make the gov't accountable for the mistake of the past. I'm just saying let's be forward thinking about what to do with that money when that day comes.

To pay some debt, renovate the kitchen and keep producing cookie cutter calves for the feedlot industry would be an absolute disservice and disgrace to the work that you and so many others are doing for the lawsuit. That money has to be looked at as a way to empower producers to be BEEF producers, not mere cow-calf producers. Sure you may not direct market it yourself, but by becoming part of an alliance of like minded BEEF producers you would be at least doing something worthy of the efforts it took to get you the money.

[kato]

We did join such an alliance back when things went to pieces, but it didn't fly, for reasons that are too numerous to add up, which is a whole other story.

Now it's gotten to the point where in Manitoba, there's not enough money or will left for enough producers to get together like they did back then. We thought start up costs were hard to come up with at the time, but that's nothing compared to now. At least then, there was some money available in producer's bank accounts to draw on. Now the cupboard is bare.

The only producer driven initiative in this province that will work is one that starts extremely small, under the radar, and grows at a slow and steady pace. A settlement cheque could just be enough to launch a few like that for those of us who are left.