BSE Petition update....

[burnt]

Kathy, I understand what you are getting at and am not closed to your ideas about transmission and infectivity.

Who am I to question anyone else's work in matters in which I have only a negligible amount of knowledge?

What does strike me as I think about your view on this matter is that we both share a common interest - that of holding the government accountable on a very serious issue that the government has badly mishandled.

Thus, I will work toward what I see as a proper resolution to my immediate and general concerns in this matter, just as you will do for your interests.

[kato]

Asking to "save the industry" is not going to do anything IMHO. It has already been written off. You can tell that by the reluctance to do anything to address the so called farm support programs. The political will is not there. They are letting nature take it's course, so to speak.

The problem is that this intentional contraction in Canadian cow herd is going to go to far. We can already see plants closing, and competition for our cattle getting more and more difficult to find. Are there going to be any cattle left to fill these regained export markets? It's not looking good.

In the future, I wouldn't be surprised to see three sources for Canadian consumers to buy their beef. Either they know a farmer, and get it direct, or they get it at the store with a choice of one Canadian source, or they eat imported beef. And for cattle producers, they'll be producing commodity cattle under contract for that one processor at the price they are told they are going to get, or they will be small producers selling direct. The average mid sized family run cattle operation will be history.

The request should not be "save the industry". It should be "save the family farm". That's what's at stake here.

Doing the right thing and allowing compensation for this whole BSE fiasco is a good, non-countervailable way to give those same farms a boost, while helping restore some confidence that this country actually does value it's food producers.

And if any cattle producers don't agree that it's a good thing, then they can always opt out, and leave it to those who do.

[grassfarmer]

We get what we vote for Kato - and the average western Canadian rancher appears to want the status quo - they apparently believe in the illusion that they call a "free enterprise" or "free market" system and wouldn't want it any other way. Mentioning that you think we should save "the family farm" instantly allies you with those old Communist guys, the NFU, and we couldn't have that could we? They'd rather allow unfettered corporate imperialism by the likes of the Nilsson Bros than dare to raise your voice in association with an organisation with the word "union" in it.

[kato]

I think people out here are still voting for the old Conservative party of days gone by. That party is gone, and only the name remains, IMHO. The tradition was that the PC party was pro-agriculture, and pro-rural Canada. I don't see much evidence of that any more.

The party changed, and the voters didn't notice. Maybe some day the light will come on.

Or not...... in which case, we get what we deserve. The main support under a democracy is the fact that the citizens have a responsibility to demand accountability from their elected officials. If we chose to ignore that responsibility, then whatever happens is as much our fault as theirs.

And we will get exactly what we deserve.

[burnt]

Many people mistakenly believe that once they have cast their ballot, their job is finished until the next election.

Wrong.

Once elected, politicians need to have deliberate and clear direction from their constituents.

Not that I believe that we still really have a true democracy anymore, but if the people whine and complain in the coffee shops and never pick up the phone to talk to their MP's, then they will get exactly the response from government that they deserve.

I am appalled at the apathy and sense of helplessness that beef farmers have shown in this matter.

I guess it's a sad commentary of the human condition to sink into defeatism and believe that we have no power.

We are not made to be puppets so get up and act on your own. You will be surprised at the outcome.

[rkaiser]

I really like the part about using the money to take responsibility for our own futures. When we do get the payment ---- most will still simply see it as helping out for years of losses, or in many cases, a trip to Mexico. If --- however --- the money were used to take back some control of our industry, grassfarmer, Kathy and Kato could all be happy campers. There are enough minds out there starting the process of change from a grass roots level. If they had a bit of dough in their pockets, --- like a few Billion ---- I think they could do a lot.

And your fight could continue as well Kathy --- as the first cat out of the bag could be recognition of responsibility.

[kato]

As the saying goes, "success breeds success". If we were to be successful in this matter, maybe it would inspire others to take some responsibility, and address all the other many issues we have.

Maybe, just maybe, a light bulb would come on somewhere, and people would realize that they do have some say in what the future of this wonderful world of agriculture can be.

We are making progress. I've been learning that there are good people in our government who would really like to help cattle producers out, but quite frankly they don't know what to do. They live under fear of countervail, and out of fear of the type of debacle that happened back in 03 where the wrong people got all the money. To avoid those things, paralysis has set in.

And we pay the price.

So it's up to us to all get involved or suffer the consequences. We need to wipe the slate clean and start again. Addressing the damages done by BSE is a good start. For many, just the psychological effect of thinking there is some justice in this world could be enough to stop the stampede out of the cow business.

There is such a feeling of hopelessness, at least in our province, that it's going to take a lot of reassurance that we actually do count in the big scheme of things to turn this around now. Better prices this fall are not going to stop it. Lots have been waiting for these prices so they could get out with their shirts still on their backs.

I am sick of being asked "Why haven't you sold your cows yet?"

[smcgrath76]

The countervail issue is an interesting
one. As the cowherd comes down in size,
the issue/risk of countervailability
declines accordingly as we become less
export dependent, however in my mind it
would also have the impact of reducing
domestic prices received by producers
since competition for cattle would be
even further reduced.
I think our issue is still that we
compete on price in a perfectly
competitive business with an oligopoly
of buyers.

[grassfarmer]

Why would competition be reduced with declining supply? I certainly wouldn't expect it to increase unless we went to substantially below domestic demand levels but I would expect it to remain about the same. 2 buyers equals 2 buyers whatever the supply.
I think the correct term is oligopsony rather than oligopoly.

[kato]

Except that one of those buyers has no real stake or interest in this country. Supply declines to the point where the price goes up, it's simple to just walk out the door and switch to cheaper cost of production countries where they already have facilities anyway.

The world market is in a race to the bottom. As long as there are places with lower costs of production, multinationals who by their nature have no loyalty to anyone but the shareholder will go where the money is. They will have no regrets, and not a second thought for the destruction left behind.

[burnt]

Oh c'mon kato. Where are you getting your information? Our producer orgs won't tell you that . . .

[PureCountry]

If you want to get serious about selling beef, the first and most reliable market one wants to target is a domestic one.

Example:
Lots of people in the city ask us to bring eggs when we bring their meat order. We tell them, all our eggs are sold in our hometown locally, so why truck them to Edmonton?

Doesn't it make more sense to sell as much product as you can locally? I feel that the only way this BSE payback will be a worthwhile fight, is if producers take the money and use it to form networks/alliances to direct market more beef from farm gate to consumer plate. Be it on-farm Co-Op type abbattoirs or retail outlets, if we sell a pound of beef to a local consumer it's a pound of beef that Industrial Beef Inc is NOT selling. It's also a pound of beef that wasn't trucked across country and/or flown/floated over oceans.

There is no stronger nation that one that can feed itself. We as beef producers have got to wake up to the reality that a feedlot-type beef industry is not sustainable, nor is exporting food across oceans. That is not fantasy or belief, it is fact.