What happened to age verification with this falls calf run in Saskatchewan

[ProFarmer]

no there is no benefit to age verification only an way for the packers to screw you out of 150 dollars a head if they find one over 20 months by tag. Grass farmer you must like standing with your nose up your local ccia reps butt.

[Happytrails]

At risk of bending another nail trying to drive it into the same knot I will simply state that there are cattle operations who have purchased ID tags in the hundreds of thousands. There is NO need to justify your tag purchases by owning mother cows.

My point has been and is that our present system of ID tagging already stretches the limits of credibility. Loading on more expectations on the present system will simply lose the gains we have made.

The proposed system of AV, movement tracking, health records, etc. etc. is NOT compatible with current practices. Hence any claims made in those areas are just so much smoke.

The charge that backgrounders and feeders are replacing ID tags with their own AV tags seems far fetched but possible. More likely they are simply putting in their own tag to avoid getting caught by someone else's mistake.

Age verification should mean that 2 sources determine the same birth date. According to Webster's, VERIFY means to confirm or substantiate. There is no verification in the AV program. HT

[grassfarmer]

True enough HT - no need to own cows to purchase tags but you need to have the calves born on your place before you can age verify them.
Why not trust the rancher to age verify their calves? They are afterall the only people able to substantiate the birth dates. Backed by an audit process to ensure compliance I think you have an adequate verification process for current needs.

[Happytrails]

The age verification program is misnamed probably for public relations purposes. It is age reporting and should be represented as such. There is no way to audit the accuracy of the information submitted. HT

[kato]

As long as teeth are still the standard used, the papers are not worth much anyway.

And teeth are still the standard used. You can send cattle to the border with papers stacked up to the windows of the truck, and they can still be turned around if the teeth don't look right.

So why are we asked for papers? I suspect lots of those sheets never get to where the cattle are going. I also suspect that the name of the original owner is considered privileged information when it comes to middlemen. They are not going to want to share their sources with anyone up the chain.

[15444]

Kato, in Ontario provincial meat plants, papers trump teeth. Plant managers are always telling sellers to bring papers because it speeds up the kill line. I'm not sure about federal plants in Ontario though.

[grassfarmer]

Why the concern over the accuracy of the information the producer reports HT? This is the basis purebred cattle pedigree certificates have run on for hundreds of years. With an audit process to prove that producers are actually keeping records, recording birth dates and having the numbers age-verified on the data base tally with physical inventory is accurate enough for now.
I would never have allowed this "date of first and last calf" verification option to exist - that isn't an accurate form of verification in my mind.

Kato, I am absolutely opposed to the teeth overriding paper - have been since the start but unfortunately have never had any support from any industry group on this issue. When cattle tags are scanned at the plant their age verification info is right there instantly it's not a case of waiting for the paperwork to accompany them - that was the whole point of the EID tags. This packer abuse of the system should have been shut down in my opinion on day one.
One of my reasons to oppose using teeth is that they are wildly inaccurate to age cattle - this was proven time and again in the UK. Cattle that are treated tough nutritionally early in their lives get their adult teeth far sooner than regularly treated cattle.

[ProFarmer]

People or should I say the consumer needs to starve a little...And the government needs to but out of food production. Age verifiying should be done with as years have passed since CFIA screwed up and allowed madcow in this country.

[grassfarmer]

Profarmer that's a common refrain from farmers "consumers need to starve a little". Think about what it means though - you want people to be so short of food they are grateful for anything they get - not a very nice sentiment in this day and age. Thankfully the chance of starving in the developed world are very small so we must instead produce a good product with safeguards to protect the customer and his peace of mind just as any successful business in any other field would.

I'm sure when you go to a dealership to buy a car or truck and start asking questions about it's performance or safety you wouldn't be pleased if you were told to either buy it without this information or go back to walking and see how you enjoy that!

[SADIE]

There are two conferences coming up in Saskatoon In January that should hash out the original topic to this thread.

Saskatchewan Beef Industry Conference
"Opportunities"
Premier Beef Event
Jan 19-22,2011

www.saskbeefconference.com

Western Canadian Bovine Practicioners meeting Saskatoon Jan 13-16
Sheraton Cavalier Saskatoon

I hope to find answers to the original questions I asked that started this thread.

Alberta has mandatory AV. Saskatchewan and Manitoba do not. Most of this fall feeders I believe still went into Alberta feedlots.

How were they able to accept those cattle that were not age verified?

Have been on conference calls with beef producers from across Saskatchewan. There has been no interest or orders asking for age verified cattle over the calf run at Saskatoon, Swift Current, Assiniboia and Weyburn auction markets. Producers have not seen a premium so many have stopped the practice. Will purchase the RFID eartags. Will eartag as close to when they leave premise of origin---That is it. The less contact with a data bank---the better.

Will try to attend a couple of days at both seminars. Should be interesting.

[15444]

Sounds good Sadie. Give us an update on what you learn.

[grassfarmer]

Answer is simple SADIE, only a few markets like Japan currently require age verified. The US doesn't so if we want to continue to supply only that market we don't really need to age verify. Age verification is the key to getting beef off this continent - to Asia and to the EU.

[SADIE]

grassfarmer---I agree with you that Japan and maybe a few other foreign countries want AV. Japan supply needed is still very small so that can be filled by Alberta beef producers so you guys go your thing and make the big $$$.

My calves will go on offer when I feel they are ready to be presented and I they will have an RFID eartag applied when they are shipped but I will not age verify them. I will spend my other time doing other farm management chores and even some grain production or off farm income.

That is how it is down on the farm in Saskatchewan.

[burnt]

Grassfarmer, I completely agree with Profarmer's statement that consumers need to "starve a little". Not for the purpose of making them grateful for anything, but that they should actually learn the value of the food they have available. When consumers can freely spend one hundred bucks on a dinner for two they had better not complain about the price of a T-bone.

Our society has had it so good for so long that they (we) have developed a sense of entitlement that would embarrass the decadent Roman empire.

The only thing I would differ on is that I think that rather than starving a little, their learning would be directly proportionate to the amount that they starved . . .

But somehow I think that many of today's consumers would spend their last food dollars on a Big Mac combo rather than a package of ground beef.

[greybeard]

In a free market system if a product or service is in demand a value is assigned or a premium is paid.
I socialist systems bureaucrats stifle productivity by loading on ever increasing levels of red tape and paper work until the system eventually requires government subsidies to survive.
Is mandatory age verification making us more competitive in the COMODITY beef market or is it a niche market?