RURAL VETERINARIANS IN PRACTICE---BRACING THEMSELVES AGAINST THE CANADIAN FOOD INSPECTION AGENCY

[SADIE]

Agriville might as well see this now what is happening to the Practicing Large Animal Veterinarians.

Producers throughout rural Saskatchewan/Manitoba/eastern and northern Alberta Look at the big picture.

The recent case of Dr. Earl Vanassan (Topper mentioned)---. Rural veterinarians are refusing to do any work with the CFIA. It used to mean a visit from your H OF A Vet once a year, go for lunch on H OF A. and review paperwork---that meant you were able to do COGGINS (EQUINE), Export testing papers, T.B. Brucellosis and be available for export papers on purebred cattle or feedlot work to cross the line.

Earl Van Assen is in a multiman practice with 6 clinics and 14 vets. Just got off conference fall with him and about 4 other vets in Sask and Alta that were doing some export work. He was doing nothing different than the other veterinarians. ONe PRICK CFIA (1975) is on a mission----there are 4 others likely to get the same fine yet.

The end result---this news goes through all the large animal rural clinics across the prairies. More clinics are refusing to do export work. They don't want re-accreditation for COGGINS or any other work the looser will be the clientelle across the prairies. Large animal veterinarians are going to exodus this nation very very fast. The cat/ dog and budigar are looking better every day. THe new graduates at WCVM are not farm background and 60 out of 70 are very brilliant young ladies. 95% will be small animal bound forever. Young guys do not go into the profession because there is better income in Engineering or other avenues. The looser will be those on the few farms and ranches across the prairies.

Ask recent grads about going to work for CFIA---Never Never Never. REsult is no rural vet selection pool---no farm personnel and foreign country personnel applicants.

CFIA is crying in Saskatchewan to CLinics about they need more BSE head to meet quotas. Rural veterinarians are bitter and unitedly given the same language.

1)CFIA is public enemy #1 to farms, ranches and vet clinics.

2)Why should CFIA get any leadway for BSE heads---They didn't want cow heads from dead "prolapse cows" but from those emaciated etc. What Practicing vet or cattlemen wants CFIA on the place incase they levie a fine on Cruelty to animals.

3) More and more clinics are discontinuing selling RFID tags---Don't want the book work, the threats when so little profit---BYE BYE.

4)CFIA wants to lauch biosecurity and go through the local rural veterinary clinics---BYE BYE CFIA (THIRD FINGER).

5)Common statements practicing rural veterinarians are telling CFIA.

"How can you people enforce fines on our beef clients for causing acts that might raise concern of animal welfare groups" and "at the same time enforce laws that force the same cattle producers on repeated RFID eartagging that cause repeated acute pain on eartag applicaiton, ripped ears, bloody ears, reluctant movement of animals through chutes, alleys for retagging, scanning with lots of non reads"

THE WESTERN ASSOCIATION OF BOVINE PRACTICIONERS ---JAN 13 -16 Saskatoon will have top CFIA present, Rural bovine Practioners----THere is several great speakers on animal welfare issues, pain effect proceedures in the cattle industry. The animal welfare groups are watching.

[SADIE]

#6---When is CFIA going to reach out and educate the cattlemen on the current laws. RCMP police are lawenforcers but they are also out there doing public relation and educational work.

CFIA equivalent in Australia have taken the opposite approach (Saskatchewan Beef Magazine DEC 2010)---the system is set up to educate cattlemen with many steps before fines are levied.

[Kathy]

The very sad fact of the matter is, that the CFIA is only a tool for the United Nations oligarchy to lord over the agriculture communities around the world. They will be enforcing the UN's and international standards to the point that you and I, the small family farmer, will quit or go crazy trying to stay in the business.

All the agriculture production must, in the minds of the CFIA, be the work of only a handful of corporations like Monsanto, Cargill, Smithfield, JBS, Tyson etc.

The top heavy (management/government) system that we have now is only dragging us down the drain. I'm getting dizzy!!

There is ONLY ONE WAY TO STOP THIS AGENDA - stop cooperating with these ba$tard$. If everyone tells them they are unwelcome in our lives, they will only have government officials to run back to and cry, whah, whah.

It truely rips me, that the government allows, and taxes to death, the sale of cigarettes -known to kill people visa lung cancer... even those that don't smoke; yet, God forbid a rancher sell raw milk to a willing and accepting customer - who will likely become MORE healthy because of the live enzymes etc, found in the raw milk.

Please draw the line in the sand now, before it is too late. I applaude and encourage all large animal veterinarians who tell the CFIA to go fly a kite.

[Happytrails]

Important topic Sadie. I don't understand why the food inspection agency doesn't confine itself to inspecting food rather than imposing rules on producers. Do they think that if they come up with enough rules they won't have to inspect food? To my mind cattle are not food until they are killed. That is when the CFIA should do their work.

I fear we face an uphill battle with an urban majority who have numerous priorities antagonistic to food production and are often afraid to eat the food that IS available. HT

[grassfarmer]

Anti-CFIA thoughts aside wasn't the case as Topper outlined it of a vet falsely signing paperwork to say he had inspected animals when he hadn't? Sorry but I don't find that all that commendable he would no doubt be getting paid for his work so he should do the job properly. Again this type of situation occurs in a lot of different professions and I think the principle is the same - do your job properly or risk the consequences.
One situation that brought media headlines often in the UK was with Social Workers who were assigned to check up on kids who had been victims of domestic violence or living in abusive households. Sadly it would often emerge at a court case into the death of a child that the social worker had failed on several successive checkups to actually see the child, they were either fobbed of by the parents or told the kid was out playing. Do your damn job people - that is what you are being paid for.
To me that is the same situation with your vets falsely signing paperwork and not inspecting the animals.

[ALLFARMER]

I can't see where I would ever be able to send in a cow head for inspection. My vet wants to see the animal alive before she will send it in. So I load a clearly sick animal and haul it 1.5 hours one way to have her do what? Shoot it at her clinic in town? Or kill it some how cut off the head and then do what with the body? Am I some how going to load it into my trailer and haul it home?? Am I looking to be charged with hauling a clearly distressed animal??

I have had cattle here (now 250 head) for 4 years and not once have I had a vet at my farm....she is not interested in doing farm visits. Also the county was paying her 30k a year to be here and now I hear she is looking for 100k a year from them? I don't know how things could be worse... she has not spend any money into her business in the past 15 years. A 1985 truck that looks like new and a facility that looks 50 years old. Few grads from vet school? How are we going to buy drugs like Micotil if this area has no vets period? What a mess.

[ALLFARMER]

I just looked it up she got her 100K a year bonus and the vet committee has 50k to do renovations with wow

[SADIE]

Allfarmer---Time to help clarify the situation.

When you graduate you have to belong to a provincial veterinary medical association. This case AVMA. To set up a practice to open the doors you go to go through Practice standards again under the AVMA.

To sell perscription drugs like Micotil, Nuflor, Trivetrin, Borgal, Banamine veterinarian have to have a veterinary client relationship with you as a customer.--again governed by the AVMA. This is why now travelling by a clinic on the way to Edmonton you cannot just stop ,walk in and demand a product like this off the shelf.

The AVMA regulates the structure of building and upkeep through practice inspection done every 5 years and talking to going to 3 yrs. Some longstanding clinics built years ago are facing situations like upkeep/ad on or shut down.

When in practice 98% of your governence the concern is your Veterinary peers from the provincial association that you can become involved and be part of the decision making.

A very small corner---less that 1% in most clinics do work and provide service that is governed by (H OF A) now Canadian Food Inspection Agency. THe service being provided and the exact paperwork, Looking at the loads of animals and now tags then driving like hell to get the papers countersigned by your CFIA rep in a city and back to your Trucker so he can be in his Semi and drive to meet border crossing (with Semi or Horse trailers) is very stressfull on a practice load in the first place. The hearings of the recent $10,000.00 fines has just sent up a "red FLAG" of extreme caustion to all these clinics that do not enough of this work to feel confortable doing. The revenue in those clinics is not worth it.---Another service removed from that area.

CFIA now wants to walk in and expand its governence over these clinics by telling them they should sell RFID eartags to provide service to the clients, and expand its power over those same practicioners. Many are in the later years of there service. Many cannot get new help (scared as hell of all the regulatory rules) easier to go the SA route ----they have rules of governence also but expertice can be achieved by those vets and when presenting those clients with an increased $$$$ the clientelle appears more receptive. Talk is about 20% of those outlying rural clinics in Alta, Sask, and Man will be gone when that current vet retires and move on.

In practice you do not need to accept or keep your government accreditation current ---if it is work that is undesirable--too stressfull, not enough $$ in it, you remove that from your practice of service to clientelle. This is happening and those veterinarians now have to "Turn those customers away" from those doors.

I remember the work. Very demanding, short notice by client, rush truckers coming, rush to drive or have technician drive 100kms to get papers signed, Clientelled dictating you all they want to pay you because the Feedlot Veterinarian in Lethbridge doing many loads undercut (Like feedlot work totally is) --Must meet Friday so the trucker can meet the border crossing vets on time 8 hours away??

Service will be gone in many areas.

Allfarmer that is the difference you are facing in your northern Alberta Location with that (Likely a government clinic)

ThE $$$ you are hearing is not unreasonable with todays building costs.

To help you buy Micotil---Pr drug it would be advantageous to develope a veterinary client relationship and give your vet a planned work service (not one animal) but maybe some Preg check on a group of cows.

Conclusion--to practice vet medicine and make a living you need your provincial licence and practice inspection papers---That is a must but you do not need your CFIA regulatory permit---that can be denied and is happening quickly

[kato]

One other point to remember. I don't know about other provinces, but this is the way it works in Manitoba.

We have provincially subsidized rural clinics here. A local Vet Services Board consisting of municipal politicians works with the vet. They provide a clinic and the upkeep costs. No cash. However, it cuts overhead costs significantly.

It's not quite free money though. In return the vet has to operate under a fixed fee schedule, and is obligated to make local clients the priority. This is a direct benefit to the clients. Just compare the cost of spaying your dog at a rural practice, compared to in the city. It's a pretty obvious difference. Drugs are sold under a regulated markup as well.

It was set up to encourage vets to go into rural practice, but as time goes by and the large animal numbers reduce as fast as the large animal vet students, it's going to be more and more difficult to maintain services.

[15444]

Our local vet, (small animal that has kept his large animal accreditation with help from a locum from SK) just turned 60. There is no one at this time to replace him when he retires, let alone someone who wants to keep the large animal drugs/services flowing. We have been without a large animal vet in our area for about 10 years now. The locum comes in for a few days once a month to do BSE's, preg check etc. If you can't do the work on a calving cow in trouble, yourself, or have a neighbour do it, you shoot her. I can see this becoming fairly common in
Canada in the next 10-15 years.

As a result, this past year I have started importing all of my non-perscription drugs/vaccinations from a distributor in Iowa. I am prepared when the large animal services in this area go for good.

Note to other producers, you are allowed to import up to 20 kg of veterinary medications/vaccines into Canada before you need special CFIA permits.

[SADIE]

Kathy--thankyou for the positive and understanding words on your thread.

History of H OF A obtaining their veterinary supply to go to government was they wanted those in rural practice after 20-25 yrs--Tired, sore shoulders, knee or whatever to come and work for them. The other group like myself were fortunate to invest and get back to their roots and do what you people on agriville are doing--farm or ranch.

Those that went to CFIA--regular hours, weekends off, a pension plan--but in return they could talk and deal with the rural public--explain issues and policy to them. They also carried some degree of a degree in CS--COMMON SENSE. That group of H Of A veterinarians are at the end--now working for CFIA. That group are retiring because (Close friends of mine comment??--we cannot impose the fines and penalties on fellow cattlemen what CFIA (CENTRAL) wants us to do".

Today CFIA--you don't need to retire at 65--some fellows just hired on at 72 (those that couldn't really make the practice economics work).

To survive in CFIA--you cannot offer an opinion and rock the boat to those above you.

To be promoted you have to become "Vegetable like" and don't have practical opinions.

Been to stress seminars with CFIA veterinarians. Many score off the map. They are not happy with their jobs, they stay because they do not fit any other area. There are no mid life rural veterinarian background vets applying. non-farm, urban and foreign (with no farm background) and many with language barriers are the ones that apply.

In practive from 76-95 that talk was always to some day go work for the government so you spoke nicely of H OF A (CFIA)--that day is gone.

[ALLFARMER]

Thanks Sadie for all your imput. It is great that you comment here. I don't know how she could pre check for me...her facility holds about 15 head tops and she won't come to the farm so.....? Also I am 80% certain she own's everything....She lives alone onsite in a late 70's very early 80's house trailer. The 35x35 building is from the 60's or earlier. She does charge the farmer less for fee's because of the county money she receives. It would be interesting too know how much retirement cash she has tucked away 0 debt their. The gov needs to consider letting farmers do vet work for other farmers. One guy I know is busy pushing in prolapses and removing big calves...a very physical job....something not practical for a 50's smaller woman to do. Thanks again and Happy New Year!!!

[grassfarmer]

The best vet we ever had was a girl weighing about 120lbs if she was lucky. Could pull calves and put in prolapses a lot better than many of the bigger guys in the practice. Skill overrides brawn sometimes!

[SADIE]

Allfarmer--The government considering farmers doing their own work. It is not the government per say it is the provicial veterinary assocaition act.

Alot of work is done by farmers--always has and always will the fact is the farmer doing the work cannot charge for it because then he is practicing vet medicine without a license. The barder system is still used.

The other way to develope the veterinary client relationship with the veterinarian---does she do any examination of large animals in a clinic?

Try being candid with her and stop is and ask her "What can I do to develope the veterinary clinette relationship. What type of work would you like to see from me so that on occasion if I need a bottle or two ---or short notice some "good drugs"--eg nuflor micotil that you might feel confortable in selling it to me over the counter.

Each vet is different and the recent ones are really "scared". Basically their client records that they keep on file in your name have to show they either have been on your premise or have examined animals in clinic usually within each calender year. Remeber if you haul in an animal live or dead for necropsy make sure it is bearing an approved RFID eartag??? section 176 (minor) When done make sure you contact the administrator (data base) and deregister that tag. Section 186 (1)or 186 (3) both classified as minor offences like 176.

[15444]

Allfarmer,

What we really need is a change in the vet act that would allow colleges to train students in a core area of vet work. If you just wanted to do cow work, you did your two years of university, and did a year (or two) in vet college, focusing just on cows. Herd health, anatomy, surgery, etc. You wouldn't be licensed for any other large animal or small animal procedures, and might actually be more experienced with your own species at task than most other general large animal vets.

That's what the vet colleges should be doing.

That was my hope when I was younger, and in my years at university, a lot of rural students trying for vet college, that I spoke to, thought it was a great idea. Some just wanted to work on horses, or pigs. But you would be surprised at the number that just wanted to work on cows.