Soorer or later GM feeds

[wd40]

BRUSSELS, BELGIUM — European Feed Manufacturers Federation (FEFAC) President Patrick Vanden Avenne said on Feb. 8 that the E.U. cannot delay any longer in adopting the “technical solution” for imports of feed containing traces of GM events not yet approved in the region.

“The E.U. livestock sector, in particular the pig farmers, currently faces the most severe crisis for decades. At a time when livestock farmers are struggling with high feed costs due to record world price levels for cereals, we risk losing market access to the South American spring soybean crop with dramatic consequences for the supply of protein-rich feedstuffs due to the present E.U. zero-tolerance policy,” Avenne said.

[ALLFARMER]

a bad policy decision that will have to be repealed

[Happytrails]

The purists will have to realize that genes replicate themselves; always have and hopefully always will. The more successful they are the more they replicate.

They don't search their family tree for GM before they replicate. If they make it to the big show then they have as much of a claim to a spot on this world as the rest of us. That is not to suggest that all life has a right to exist only that GM is simply the tweeking of a natural process. HT

[wd40]

Trojan Horse

[grassfarmer]

HT,
"GM is simply the tweeking of a natural process"
I guess that rather depends what you define as "tweeking" (if that means the same as tweaking anyway)
Take the GM tomato for example where they wanted to extend it's shelf life by making it better able to withstand lengthy refrigeration. Cue inserting a gene from the artic carp (a fish) into the new tomato plant! That's rather more than tweaking a natural process in my book - more worthy of the "Frankenstein food" label it has in Europe.

[Happytrails]

My point is simply that we humans are responsible for an infinitesimally small amount of the genetic modification that the world has witnessed. How can you say that a particular type of human caused GM is intolerable but all other GM is acceptable? Barring ourselves from the game doesn't make sense to me. HT

[burnt]

HT - Genetic modification is not the same as hybridization or natural selection.

Do you have any examples of any species that actually exchanged genes without outside help?

[Happytrails]

Burnt I suppose it depends on how far back you go. Presumably all life originated from the same genetic material. I am not trained in genetics; can only speculate on gene mutations and/or permutations based on the diversity of things living. And of course the pool of organism which have died out is considerable. The forces which modified life on earth must dwarf man's meddlings.

[PureCountry]

Dwarf man's meddlings???????? And who's to say that man's GMO meddlings won't dwarf what's been done in the past? That is the whole issue - no one has a clue what these "meddlings" are going to do in the long term!!! They have no research to prove that GM food won't have harmful effects on human health, animal health, plant health, even soil health. We just don't know!! And if we can't learn from the past about the importance of research into food, ie, Aspartame, what the hell will we ever learn?

[Happytrails]

It might be a bit late but I don't want to follow this thread to places it shouldn't go. In case we're not there yet I will make 2 points.

1. To suggest that GM is capable of creating some all powerful super bug or weed or rat or lion or whatever seems far fetched to me. The successful species on this earth are here because they are the best of the best. Life on earth has always been a struggle for food. And any new entrant faces formidable competition. Almost all experimental organisms don't survive.

2. GM is a present reality and I don't think that the cat is going back in the bag. Modified genes will be subject to the same selection pressures as regular ones. We can attempt any amount of controls but genes will be genes and some of them will replicate. Hence the title of this thread. Sooner or later GM feeds. There is no use pretending that it isn't going to happen. HT

[grassfarmer]

On the contrary purecountry - we do know enough to prove the unsafe nature of GM derived foods. We just need to look at the evidence and see the way it is being manipulated to "prove" that GM is safe.

Read any one of hundreds of articles on the issue on the internet - many from reliable sources to see that we are foolhardy to proceed with this stupidity.

Check out this scientific research paper for example;

http://www.combat-monsanto.org/docs/doc%20scan/OGM/Pryme.pdf

If you can't be bothered reading it all read this part of the conclusion and think about what it is saying.

"It is generally recognised that samples of commercial GM plant materials are
not obtainable without prior contractual understanding with the producer
(Lembcke 2000). For this reason, only institutions able to develop and cultivate
GM plants, themselves, have been regarded here as independent.
The work in five studies (Noteborn et al., 1995; Hammond et al., 1996,
Brake and Vlachos, 1998; Hashimoto et al., 1999, Teshima et al., 2000) was
regarded as having been performed more or less in collaboration with private
companies. In none of these studies were effects related to GM-materials
reported. On the other hand, adverse effects were reported (but not explained)
in independent studies by Pusztai (1998, 2002), Fares and El-Sayed (1998),
Ewen and Pusztai (1999) and Pusztai et al., (1999). It is remarkable that these
effects have all been observed after feeding for only 10–14 days.
Pusztai’s studies (Pusztai 1998, 2002; Ewen and Pusztai 1999; Pusztai et al.,
1999) are remarkable in that the experimental conditions were varied and
several ways were found by which to demonstrate possible health effects of
GM-foods...."

Simple proof that test results are being manipulated by those who stand to benefit most from disguising the truth.

[grassfarmer]

HT, You are behind the times - we already have a GM superweed. I guess it can happen afterall?

http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/science-scope/genetically-modified-canola-found-in-the-wild/3407/

http://news.discovery.com/earth/gm-plant-canola-wild.html

[Happytrails]

You make my point GF. GM plants are here and we have to deal with them as with all other living things. Now I've got to go work some cows genetically modified the old fashioned way. HT

By the way, if herbicide resistance qualifies as a super weed then I'm afraid we have lots.

[wd40]

I think we have gone of on the tangent that the Monsanto's of the world want us down.

The real purpose of GM genetics is so that the market place can be manipulated and controled because the gene pool is now "patented".

Or in other words someone else ones the property your using.

Now that "trace amounts" are already showing up. May aswell open the flood gates cause it now can't be controled.

[jensend]

happytrails you're close to getting it. you said if herbicide resistance constitutes super weeds we're there. so we should just keep on going down the same road? you're only one step away from thinking maybe there should be another approach. monsanto wins again. when it's finally generally realized that these genetics can be a big problem they'll offer another solution they just happen to hold the patent on and most producers will be so grateful that monsanto is there to save them! why do all the crop protection products try to defeat natural selection and succession? isn't the food production model doomed by its own unsustainability?