CFIA to ramp up fines

[chalice]

I received a letter to day form the CFIA. It was addressed to me as a tag dealer and that they were going to ramp up there administering of fines to dealers that do not enter the tags sold within 24hrs. Dealers that are found to not have uploaded the numbers to a producers account in the time allowed will be subject to a $6000 fine. I am curious how they arrived at $6000? I immediately removed the tags from the shelf. There is not enough profit in them to risk that kind of penalty.

[Happytrails]

Can't blame you. They have a real dictatorial mentality. I for one can't wait till they go on to other things and leave the cattle business to cattle people. Maybe eventually we will get a government that stops feeding them money. HT

[grassfarmer]

24 hours wouldn't be a big problem at the retail outlets I buy at - UFA and the Co-ops all have staff standing around doing nothing anyway. Lets tell the other side of the story though - why this is being introduced. I was trying to age verify calves ahead of a sale for a producer that doesn't own his own computer - 5 months after sale the tags had not been registered with CCIA. Maybe some retailers need to get with the program?

HT, how can it be? - your right wing free market Governments feeding money to agencies like CFIA - acting like socialists again eh? You guys are so busy looking for "reds under the bed" you can't see the reds you're in bed with.

[burnt]

HT - when have you ever seen a bureaucracy that dismantled itself? The problem with government is that it just keeps on growing.

What started out as a "good idea" eventually and inevitably turns into a monster.

I don't know how one would ever turn it back . . .

[chalice]

Grassfarmer I'm glad that you get your tags at the big box stores. When the tags first came out I sold them as a revenue generator in small town but it has slowly become to much hassle. My biggest problem with it is it is just another thing the CFIA has stuck their nose into that has whittled away at my bottom line. Scouring calves are a rarity at my clinic because if one dies we have to go through a permitting process to get the dead calf home or someonehas to pay to have the SRM removed and transported to a disposal facility. This is all in an effort to keep a dead scour calf out of the food chain. I do about 1/3 of the post mortems that I used to for the same reason. Not only has it hurt my pocket book what has it done to disease suveillance in my area. I almost need an extra person around just to deal with the bureaucracy.

My main point is that when it becomes uneconomical for me to remain in a small community I will leave. Eventually this was going to happen anyway it just may happen sooner than later. Who will replace me?

When I look back to the 1950's it was not a federal vet or an RFID tag that diagnosed Foot and Mouth Disease. It was a rural practitioner. This is what we should be concerned with.

[SADIE]

Chalice--thankyou for the fax and electronic information sheet you just received from CFIA. This recent notice of the "potential fine $6000.00" for not registering RFID tag nos within 24 hours will be the true "nail in the coffin" for Veterinary Clinics to remain retail outlets.

Why would a veterinarian sell RFID eartags that continue to break down. The veterinary clinics now have the information that Allflex RFID eartags are only recommended to be "operational" in temp conditions of O celsius to 50 celsius weather and Destron operational temp recommendations are -25 celsius to 50 celsius.

I have been calving and checking the mothers when they are in the chute/head gate and this year more than ever when you look at the back of the ear of the cow the male button is broken at the washer. Many veterinary clinics now have the DVD jewel case and blank DVD sitting on their counters so that producers can come in and see the pictures on the cover of:

1)Tags breaking down still on the cow.

2)List of the CFIA monetary fine laws that are totally set up for a serial number to remain on the animal as a permanent ID.

3)How a "fined" cow-calf producer, trucker or veterinarian can defend himself by going to the Canadian Agriculture Review Tribunal.

The DVD jewel case packages are now with the Saskatchewan Veterinary Medical Association and there is an interest of having this be part of an upcoming presentation at future veterinary conferences in Western Canada.

The real problems are esculating rapidly.

[grassfarmer]

"The real problems are esculating rapidly" - I agree, all around the world.
Exaggerated ear tag loss and vet welfare aren't real problems IMO.

[SADIE]

<a href="http://s1138.photobucket.com/albums/n523/kphaber/?action=view&current=DVDCoverS-2.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

[chalice]

GF. I'm not worried about Vet welfare or tag loss either. As a vet myself I will survive whether I am in my current location or not in fact, a change may be nice. The Co-op will keep selling you tags and you'll keep operating.
If I can explain my concern further when veterinarians relocate to more populated centers,for economic reasons,who will be left in the community that is trained to recognize the reportable animal diseases that are out there and are a real threat? TB and Brucellosis have been eliminated apart from a few wild populations and this was done with ranchers, vets and federal vets working together.
This unified front no longer exists. With the over zealous SRM rules, the anaplasmosis wreck in BC, issuing fines to people over tag loss, the CFIA is the adversary to the rancher. Now they are they alienating me, an accreditted veterinarian, who is the mediator between them and the beef producer. This is very short sighted.
If the industry is going to move forward the beef producer, the vet and the CFIA are going to have to work in unison. We are like horses pulling a cart. The rancher is pulling one way, the CFIA is pulling another and the vet doesn't know which way to pull but is leaning toward the rancher and the wagon is going nowhere. The challenge as I see it is how do we bring the CFIA back in line? They are unregulated and they do not take criticism. It is going to be tough.

[grassfarmer]

I don't see the reduction in vets any different to rural depopulation in general. I had a poisoning outbreak last summer in grazing yearlings and my own vet was away at a conference so I couldn't get him. I had to go to a vet in the next larger,town and pay the extra milage charges - it came out of my pocket no big deal, it's a business we run. That's the solution to a reduced vet population and farmers will always be on the front line in noticing or identifying animal disease outbreaks - we'll spot the animals and ultimately foot any costs involved. It doesn't really matter who we phone when we need help if something serious happens - local vet, provincial vet or CFIA if it's necesary it will get done.
If vets start dedicating themselves to running campaigns against cattle traceability/movement programs they better drop the argument that they are concerned about preventing serious animal health outbreaks. That is absolutely hypocritical.

[chalice]

GF I am for traceability but I am also for choice and improving an imperfect system. I don't need to be threatened with fines made an example of to the public of how we are enforcing traceability. If that is the case I will become a poodle mechanic and your on your own.

[grassfarmer]

So going back to my first post - how long to you think is an acceptable time for you to report your CCIA tag sales? As producers we need to know that when we pick up tags at a retail outlet we can go home, tag calves and then age verify them. If they don't get reported to CCIA the system breaks down and we might be penalised in the market place because cattle aren't age verified.

[chalice]

GF I think you have missed the point I was trying to make, so lets go with 24 hrs. Then you can go home tag your calves, age verify them and market them the next day.

[per]

Gf, I try to purchase as much as I can from my vet. Sure I might pay a little more (not usually) but when I phone up and ask a question I get "free" advise. I consider the drug and tag profit a retainer on the consulting that I don't pay for. Also keeps me conversing with him and her and they give me heads up on things that might not happen with out more frequent visits.

[grassfarmer]

chalice, I think you missed the point I was making. The reason for the increased fine from CFIA - retailers not passing on the purchaser info in a timely manner to CCIA. Without that link of the chain working the system doesn't work. I would ask you again - what would you consider a suitable timeline to be reporting the sales? indeed what has the allowable time been up to now for that matter?

per, I feel my vet sets his fees high enough that I don't have to subsidise him by purchasing higher priced inputs from him. I pay him for the work he does, buy my small amount of drugs and all my vaccines there. He only stocks Ivomec so I have to go elsewhere to buy the generic variety I prefer to use. I consider the "unpaid" phone advice from my vet part of his service and I think he would agree.