monitor your cattles energy balance

[Happytrails]

Good on you chalice for offering a word to the wise. HT

[rkaiser]

While we are on the serious side. Could we perhaps be coaching these folks that are challenged by feed costs and off farm jobs to have a look at genetics?

Some cattle are simply more apt to use poorer quality feeds than others. There has been a movement over the last 30 or 40 years to create a steer that will eat lots of barley; and guess where his sisters have ended up. Not even so much a breed thing anymore. We find these barley eaters in every breed and their sisters in a lot of trouble. Especially when the farmer is challenged by finance to not supply the nutritional requirements necessary to meet the needs of these genetically modified barley eatin cattle.

Is that you on the right Chalice?

[kato]

We're in the process of buying some light calves to background... again... it's a habit, what can I say?

Anyway, looking at the condition of some of these little guys, I would be afraid to go see their mamas.

Some of these calves were wintered so cheap that they ran when Hubby cracked their first straw bale. I don't think they knew what bedding was. They ran! They soon figured it out though, and to say they had joy on their faces when they crashed down on their new cozy bed would be an understatement. Yes, calves can actually have happy expressions on their faces, especially when it's the first time they've been comfortable.

What kind of a winter they have had is anyone's guess, but I'm betting it wasn't a good one. If you have a calf that puts on pounds so fast you can see it over a two week period, it's compensating, no doubt about that.

Our policy is to never let our cows get so thin that we would be ashamed if someone saw them. Sure the hard workers will lose some weight, but there's no excuse for being able to hang your hat on their hips. That's not acceptable.

If you can't afford to feed them, you shouldn't have them. That's the bottom line. If we couldn't afford to keep the cows in good condition, we'd sell them.

[chalice]

That's me on the right. I think that genetics are part of it but it is not possible to select a cow that can do on nothing. My wife and I run around 100 hereford/angus/gallowayX cows. They fit the Bonsma/Fry type and once in a while we have to supplement the energy. That beigng said we try to produce beef with as little diesel and as high a percentage of forage as possible.
There are a few herds I have been called to where that longhorn in the video would be the fattest cow. Apart from the welfare issue, this is going cost them dearly when it comes to all of the problems that are associated with malnourished cattle. Dystocias, disease, low weaning weights and more opens for a start.

[chalice]

Kato your last line is a message that some producers really need hear.
Randy I saw in another thread that you have seen the wild aleution cow. I spent 2 summers gathering cattle on Unalaska and Umnak. They are the most functional cow I have dealt with worldwide. It is a unique environment and it is amazing what cattle can do for themselves when we don't interfere with them too much.

[gaucho]

Good post Henry, however I have to agree
with Randy.... too much selection for high-octane genetics is part of the
problem and then there are guys that run
young cows that are still growing with
their mature cows.... as far as forage
quality; anytime you get the production
you guys had last year , you will loose
in quality, never mind how late it was
cut and baled (feed test).... what we
missed in quantity last year was made up
for in quality and our cows are hog fat, except for the correinte/ longhorn cross
that were too good a deal to pass up.By
the way the only thing missing is a
theme song, some toques and have a
Molson Canadian in hand...Education and
entertainment.... good on you for doing
the post

[rkaiser]

I really thought you hired those two goofballs for the shoot chalice, but nice to meet you. I feel a little bad about teasing you and your belly but I am sure you can take it. We all have our weird little things going on like the pills I take for mental health LOL and gaucho's friggin hairdoo. You cut that stuff yet gaucho?

It's kinda like our bull sale this year -- when we start making a few bucks, we can have some fun in the industry again. --- AND hopefully get those guys who are challenging their cows too much to use some of that cash to feed em or change genetics, or both.

Where's old Pallet? I am sure you could come up with some smart assed Toronto Lawyer antics that could add to this thread.

[BTOfarmallll]

Chalice excellent video, enjoyed meeting yous. Also very glad to see yer rockin that look, hope more Cow Guys kin do the same. Don't mind Randy K, he's a Sellout. May I ask how many wild cattle are run on the Unalaska & Umnak Islands, what breeds are they, what are they like, pictures??? Might as well tell us the Whole Story on it. Long Live The Cowboy way.......

[rkaiser]

Sellout - LOL - I take pills for that too.

[per]

I know everyone lives in a different environment and my Southern Alberta perspective is biased to milder winters than many others. Some cows don't do well under my preferred winter management. They get separated and fed different and culled. The cows need to convert all sorts of low quality feed into maintaining their condition. I use the fiber length in the pat as my guide and add and subtract protein accordingly. This Manitoba style winter was a tough one for me and them but 95% of the cows look great and the rest look OK. That is the result of consistent culling of poor doers. I think it takes a big barrel to have an easy keeping cow.

[rkaiser]

A little story came to me this morning BTOfarmall. And don't get me wrong, I believe you are very likely a straight and possibly alpha male.

A few years back, I ran into a couple of gay guys at a bar after a wedding for a good buddy of mine.

The first one was the aggressor, out on the dance floor with his wife beater T shirt and lots of muscles. He came on to me while I was dancing with my wife "at the time" and I made a few smart assed remarks that basically kept me out of a fist fight with him. He then went over to my buddy who was pretty much three sheets to the wind and I could see a dust up about to take place. My wife and I danced a little closer to the scene and when I saw my buddy's blood start to boil, I used the dance music to get in real close and hip check this big fellow into a bunch of empty chairs. He went flying and we all got kicked out of the bar. Good thing there were a few extra straight fellows around or I would have likely gotten my ass kicked by this alpha gay and youthful homo.

Then we were heading upstairs to our room and the other little submissive gay guy was chatting it up with the gals about some of the things gay guys do. I asked him to stop and he turned and tried to push me down the stairs calling me a homophobe among other things.

This time, I chose to ask him to sit and chat for a bit and he agreed.

I asked him about why he liked being a victim. I don't know for sure if it was the booze or what, but by the time we were done, he was crying and talking about his suicidal tendencies and finally asked me if he could "do" my wife's hair.

We all have this tendency to be victims BTOfarmall. I am not sure what your victim story is and if you like we could sit down and chat about it over a beer some day. I have been that way a lot in my life as well, but have found that a proactive approach, instead of blaming or poking a bear with a stick, have better results. If you don't like what One Earth Farms is doing, pick up a hockey stick and get in the game instead of blaming them for your problems.

If you want to poke at me again bud, here's my personal email address. kaiser.randy@gmail.com

I'm a little old for a scrap, but maybe I can help with a few words of wisdom (or insanity as some people like to call my words.)

[kato]

But Randy, poking bears with sticks is fun!

per, the comment about the Manitoba style winter hit the nail on the head. You have to design your management to work with your climate, and can't just jump in headfirst and change things without thinking it over.

A few years ago, I remember we had a streak of six weeks in a row where the thermometer never rose above minus 30, not even in the daytime. And we had a couple of feet of snow on the ground at the same time. Tough sledding, no matter what kind of cow you have, or what your management style is.

We pick and choose whatever ideas are out there, and we use the ones that will work for us.

Yes, we lock them up in winter, and we bed them. But we also graze corn until the end of January, and turn them out in April on to stockpiled forage, which means they're in the yard for three months. During that time, most of the calves are born.

Our cows travel away to pasture for the summer, so we want the calves on the ground before they go. You can't calve cows that are 50 miles away and do a good job of watching them. And if we're already paying for the calves to be in that pasture, they may as well be big enough to eat it.

We also don't bale graze, for the simple fact that we have a herd of deer almost as large as our cow herd, and it's all our poor dogs can do to keep them out of the hay yard. If we set those bales out in an open field, there'd be nothing left for the cows. Really! There are at least 80 of them, and they are bold.

I think there are a few guys in Manitoba who are trying to use management styles designed for the Alberta climate, without making the appropriate adjustments to make them fit in our climate.