The view from the ground

[gaucho]

Who would have thought that GF's pictures could turn the thread into such a debate... but I think some really well presented perspectives.... The only one I still can't figure out is Allfarmer... you have answered a lot of things that you intend on doing but you have forgot to mention the one most important in any ag business.... cash flow. I admire the plans but you have nothing to sell off those heifer still fall 2012.... clearing bush doesn't come cheap, the money for the shop, the feed bills, the repairs etc etc....Had you held on to your cows at least you would have something to sell this fall.

[T.N.T.]

My thought was exactly the same thing Gaucho?How do you go from selling your cow herd because you can't get financing to buy a 1/2 section of land.To now your buying in 1 year a section of land,over 200 heifers,building steel fence,building a shop and clearing 250 acres of bush?

[SADIE]

Grassfarmer---When you posted your 2 pictures of the snow cover April 24 it showed me an environmental situation that was somewhat abnomal and out of any cow-calf mans control.

IF you have a bunch of calves on the ground I showed you a possible concern. If they are still in the cow---no problem.

The object for all of us on this thread is to try and have a live calf by the cow as they go to grass this year with minimal imput cost.

Good management is the key to success on any ranch or farm when the operator is working and caring about preventing wrecks.

Chalice you mentioned on another thread that managing cow herds today includes some people having off farm jobs and working cattle on week-ends. In this area calving is Mar & April because May these producers become grain farmers and get on the land seeding crops. Ranchers with large numbers have the 500 plus cows out in larger areas and are beginning to calve on range.

The two biggest systematic problems that seem to cause problems in the calf 2 weeks old to 2 months of age is Intestinal

1)scours--loose backside, black and tarry backside, bloody backside.

2)full gut--bloat type--abomasal hairball, abomasal ulcer complex.

3)Calf pnuemonia---Pasturella sudden death.

4)Calf diptheria---necrotic laryngitis

When one recognizes each or any of the above the first thing ---don't you want to get out of the problem first? While treating or discovering the cause with necropsy then one might look at management change to avoid this another time.----would that be the common approach to agrivillers?

I mentioned two treatment drugs that worked during my years in practice and are still available today. Sulfamethazine boluses---tighten up the gut and are long-acting. Trivetrin another sulfa this is injectable that gives immediate high blood levels that target the lung and the intestine.

I haven't practiced for 16 years now but when in round-table discussions at the local implement coffee table the conversation often arises about giving penicillins or tetracyclines to the young calf in massive doses. This too concerns me because I still remind them that those are not the best of choice when dealing with that age of animal for those conditions.

My pictures have cattle out on a carpet with grass just starting to come because of the recent heat. My management practice experience is to keep moving cow-calf pairs as numbers increase and size of animal grows (calf) to bigger area---decrease the concentration rate. Hair ball stomach ulcer syndrome occurs when you put pairs out on stubble type of ground like the second picture.

My concern now for my cow-calf pairs is still spring Pasturella pneumonia which I believe becomes a concern with another spring weather problem and that is temps in the 20s daytime and the low temps down to 0 at night. This will encompass the entire herd and usually targets the bigger steer calves first. You might find them with pnuemonia or you will find them dead.

I still do a post-mortem on everything on my place and record the reason why death loss.

End of May is PFRA pasture delivery time. One has been seeding for 3 weeks and now getting pairs ready for pasture. Processing is often a family affair when help is home on weekends. Each animal is caught head and healled or on the calf cradle. Loose backside under the tail---What might you do--- you are not going to see this animal or catch it for a while. The entire calf crop in the catch pens you notice some of this going on. 2 calf spans or 3 if they are bigger might not be a bad management decision at that time is it.

PFRA pasture managers comment at the bi-annual pasture meetings continually about the time of roping calves, treating and finding dead calves during the first week after take in date.

Chalice---From a management perspective what change can be made for these continual recurring circumstances?

If you have to treat one of these calves most on agriville know you only want to catch and treat it once don't you?

[SADIE]

Correction--the two biggest systemic concerns in a young calf is intestinal and Lung (pneumonia).

[rookie]

Maybe he inherited a farm ...

or , maybe he works off the farm ...

or, maybe he works with his parents or siblings on the farm ...

or he might just be lucky at bingo ...

maybe that new land came from an uncle who sold it way below market value ...

but the most likely one , is that he is a psychiatrist and is secretly researching online chat pages for social skills possessed by farmers and ranchers and the correlation to intelligence . sigh .

but on a positive note, your seem to be a step above those grain fellas on this site, so keep it up. and I am sure as the snow continues to melt the view will improve ...

[per]

When land that you want (near, irrigated etc) comes up for sale is not usually in your control so you do what you have to do to make it happen. I get that. Selling the factory (cows)makes it difficult to pay for the land the factory is on. Hard for me also to get past Gaucho's point on the heifers. A second calving cow or pair is always a better buy in my opinion. A coupon to clip, a look at how functional her bag feet etc are and less calving difficulties. Plus as an added bonus, less bull choosing risk. Good for you however to have a plan to expand and to be able to act on it.

[chalice]

Sadie I see a lot of what you are talking about. I think it is curing itself as in the last seven years I have seen many producers move to later calving out on stock piled pasture. Lots of room and clean ground make a big difference. Some of our grain producers are getting ready for seeding in March and April having a boo through the cows before they get in the field and checking them before dark.
I have also seen however, where some bigger producers are trying to calve out 700 head on a quarter. This is just a big corral with a lot more confusion and where I see some of the worst wrecks.
Sadie I think that you and I are very fortunate to have cattle and have jobs that allow us to visit 100-150 operations a year and see what works and what doesn't. It is like industrial espionage. Very few producers pick my brain for this type of knowledge and you have to becareful when you bring up the change management issue for fear that you are insulting them and get thrown off the farm.

[greybeard]

Some good advice all around, especially the last few.
I'd probably trade the experience to be young again. Maybe not.
The other thing that brings on a wreck is bringing in new stock. Especially young pairs. They have no immunity to the bugs your herd isn't bothered by.

[Kathy]

picture of chemtrails to southeast off our deck, east of Hanna:

[ALLFARMER]

Bought 49 heifers at auction today!!

[T.N.T.]

Open heifers?What did you pay for them,and what breed?

[tman]

In reference to Chalice's comment of "you have to becareful when you bring up the change management issue for fear that you are insulting them and get thrown off the farm.", if no one ever brings about change, then this industry will always be in the inferior state that it's in.

My dad told me the other day (when I got roped into helping him feed his cows since my brother was on vacation), that the old cows had much better feet than the young ones that he bought a few years ago. He's already had to get some feet trimmed while the old cows have never been touched. He admitted that those young cows should be culled but he bought them to keep heifers from them.

Well...at least he knows what SHOULD be done. Just imagine what kind of industry it would be if everyone did what should be done. I also wonder how these animals ever survived before drugs and vaccines and all the other crutches we use were invented.