Snow mold

[littledoggie]

We are having a higher then average number of new born calves failing to nurse without our help. Our feed quality is good to excellent, high quality minerals are consistantly available and there were no new bulls used. As the snow disappears there is a lot of snow mold left behind. We calve on clean pasture that has some stockpiled grass. As the snow disappears and exposes the grass, the cows are eating it up and snuffling up that snow mold too. We know people can be allergic to snow mold. Maybe cows too? We've also had a few slightly premature calves. But no deaths yet (85 on the ground so far)
Has anyone heard of such a thing?

[Happytrails]

How rough is your ground? I had same problem calving on a spiked field. Suspected that the rough ground made it hard to concentrate on finding the teat. HT

[SADIE]

littledoggie---I have to ask this herd management question. Is your cow-herd vaccinated with BVD types 1 & 2? Dealing with a herd problem and premature calves that has to come to mind also.

On an individaul basis I have had one new-born that wasn't nursing the mother is a 3-4th calver. I just brought them in and put the mother in the chute. The calf was basically starving. Milking out all 4 quarters the front 2 I am feeding the calf--by bag and tube and it now wants to suck by not the teat yet. The back two teats "healthy" quarters normal but milk "red-tinged". Doesnt feel mastitis at all--no inflamation and easy to milk out. Just milking twice a day on the ground hoping the back quarters will improve in day or two.
No reason professionally to treat the back two quarters with "mastitis treatment".

Why didn't this calf want to nurse on its own? Not a herd problem but individual and will continue on that management basis.

Good thing the mother is co-operative.

"snow-mold concern"----first I have ever heard question of it? Looking forward to other agrivillers take on it.

[brokenhill]

Sadie. Question on BVD and timing of vaccination? In particular with timing on cows and heifers - the challenge being my calving interval is not the best. Always have a few cows calving in the fall.

Never vaccinated in the past - haven't bought bred cows for a very long period of time - static herd.

Things seemed to blow up a bit this year especially with heifers.

Thanks.

[brokenhill]

Sadie. Forgot to mention I added around 30 bred cows in March to a herd of around 40.

Thanks.

[SADIE]

Brokenhill--your question on BVD is on Little Doggies post so this response has to reflect Little Doggie first.

Little Doggie---your management seems to be right at the top. Could this be just a reflection of the type of winter we just came through---long and cold.

If this experience you are having this year continues into another year and beyond the concept of BVD being endemic in your herd is a thought to carry forward.

Broken Hill--Your situation appears to be totally different than that of Little Doggie. You basically doubled your herd of cows in one year. Question on how to use BVD vaccine. Vaccines are continuing to change and improve so I would direct you to your local vet for details.

Guidline on how to use the BVD vaccine was posted on a previous thread this winter but here is the basics.

IF inclined to use this "crutch" in your beef cow-herd.

Use a modified live IBR, BVD, Pi3 vaccine in the bovine animal prebreeding season. Express 5, Pyramid and Bovashields are available. You want anitbody titres in the dam before conception. Before fetal infection takes place that will not show up till possibly a year later as premature calves, weak calves, abortions or PI Calves in the feedlot scene.

Basically vaccinate your fall calvers the same way with vaccine pre-breeding.

Chalice is new generation graduate vet and might have more to ad but the details of vaccination products and useage keeps updating so encourage anyone to discuss this with their own veterinarian that might know your own situation better.

[littledoggie]

HT - our ground is a solid mat, not rough at all.
Sadie - we are very "religious" about vaccinations, so yes they are vaccinated for BVD types 1 & 2 (Pyramid 5 to be exact). We are also pretty anal about the minerals as we have found in the past that if the cows are shorted on minerals (especially pre-calving) there can be problems with weak or stupid calves. Usually these type of problems show up with a weather event, but that is not the case here this year. These calves are not weak, just not finding the teat.

[grassfarmer]

littledoggie what have the temperatures been like when these calves were born relative to previous years? I think from observation that calves are way more sensitive to temperatures than we tend to think. If it's -30C we know we have problems calving them outside but if it's 0C when they are born that's still a big temperature drop from where they have been for 9 months.
The reason I say this is that when we started calving late in April versus March with the herd of bought in cows we had back then I really noticed a difference in the calves. Born later, on banked grass with a firm, dry bed under foot the calves were literally up and sucking within 5 minutes of being born. Calves off cows with poorer shaped udders that had needed assistance calving in March all managed fine born under the later, better conditions. There is a certain "feel good factor" to being born outside with the sun on your back and decent temperatures. But I noticed this year with our later warm up and snow melt that the calves were slower to get up and suckle to begin with. Just a little more numb looking calves, stumbling about rather than being sure footed. I have only had one to suckle off a cow with too much milk - she is gone next year. Since our weather picked up the start of last week and we are getting 10C daytime highs the calves are back to being up and suckling inside 5 minutes.
So my conclusion is that we need a certain level of temperature to get the perfect scenario of calving quick and being up and suckled fast and it requires around 10C daytime highs. That's not to say one born at -5C on a morning it gets to 15C won't be able to suckle fast, I would expect it to be OK but one born on a -15C morning when it only gets to 1C would be less likely. I'll quit now before I confuse myself any further but this is the theory I've come up with based on my experiences and observation.

[kato]

I agree that temperature makes a difference. We had a big snowstorm here on the weekend, and one of the calves born during it got chilled at the beginning. We had to bring him to the yard and put him under the heater. He just sucked the bottle this morning for the first time. That's how dumb he got over it. Lucky thing his mom has a long memory so we'll dog her home and get them back together this afternoon. We're not letting the calf back out until the bond is complete.

Another thing that can cause a slow calf is a selenium deficiency. I know we used to have to be careful whenever we fed greenfeed from a particular quarter section, because the feed was always lacking selenium from there. The soil must have been deficient.

[BTOfarmallll]

OR gist give them a Selenium shot at birth. SIMPLE.......

[kato]

Back then we used to give the shot to the cows before calving. Selenium deficiency can cause issues with cows not cleaning as well.

The best solution was to sell the quarter section, which was home to 90% of the Canadian grasshopper population, and as sandy as the Sahara. And it was 10 miles from home too. Problem solved.

[BTOfarmallll]

Give the CALF a shot at BIRTH. Reread my previous post......

[SADIE]

Kato--I am glad you brought up the product use of Vit E --Se . The product that Was available and used was DYSTOSEL DS that could be given to the cow herd before calving. It was 5 ml dose. Any history of cows "slow cleaning" and weak calves it was suggested in the herd management for the next calving season.

Before this post I checked the supplier and Dystosel DS (double strength) 5mls has been discontinued. I used to use that product in my program till the last couple of years. Might consider re-introducing the 10 mls for next calving season. Cold weather calving has taken its toll on this ranch this year.

It was much easier to treat the dam then to be "treating the calf" .

[grassfarmer]

SADIE, There's a shot you can give to prevent cold weather calving losses - its called Putnbulzoutlater.
Seriously though why has the solution to everything to come from a bottle or a pill? I think if people paid more attention to what the cattle were eating - the diversity that's growing in their pastures and going into their hay/silage crops they would see most of these problems disappear. If a cow is grazing a long season on healthy diverse plants she can build up quite a reserve of health to transfer to her calf - real natural immunity.
I was told when I bought this farm that it had a history of white muscle disease and that you needed to inject SE and multi vits when the calves are born. We don't and have never had any problems. We don't spend a lot on a fancy mineral program either - trace mineral blocks from pulling bulls in Sept through to March 1st then any cheap pasture mineral and salt for the rest of the year. We don't have unhealthy calves, calves that don't suckle and the cows breed back just fine - we are 2/3 done calving and still in the last few days of the first cycle. If you calve fairly close to the natural cycle of wildlife and graze as long as possible it's amazing how many of the problems just disappear proving once again that mother nature is a lot smarter than we are.

[kato]

The problem we used to have was strictly with greenfeed off of one particular quarter section of very light sandy land. Alfalfa was fine, greenfeed from our heavy land was fine. The original deficiency was in the soil that grew the greenfeed, and it carried right through to the newborn calf. We haven't had to use selenium shots since we got rid of that land.

gf, of course the aim is to not need to use a bottle of whatever to cure a problem by preventing the problem in the first place. That being said, sometimes problems find you. For instance, we have a neighbour who had someone else's bull jump into his pasture and left the gift of vibriosis behind. You want to see a wreck? Now, that was a wreck! It's an obscure disease you don't see much, but it is preventable with vaccine.

We buy feeders. We have a cow herd. The feeders come from an incredible number of different homes, and they bring all their problems with them. Therefore our own cattle are vaccinated for everything. As long as that auction mart riff raff is coming in the yard, we will continue to vaccinate.

However, there are some sellers of these calves we buy that we'd just like to kick in the bum. You can tell the management they were raised under by the way they fall apart when they meet the challenges of the "system". The ones that come from vaccinated herds with good nutrition programs are very easy to spot. They'll be the ones that go straight on feed and never look back.

A healthy calf with a strong immune system can handle the stresses of going through the sales ring. They're prepared for it. They have reserves. One big problem with the auction marts is that calves are being sent through them without any preparation at all. Everyone needs to keep in mind that the buyers get to know over time who does their homework and who doesn't, and they will pay accordingly.