CFIA paper text only

[grassfarmer]

gcreekrch, I certainly don't want unnecessary regulation and rules but there are a number of concerns I have where I feel we need some regulation.

Part of my initial interest in age verification and traceability was to create a tool to unlock the captive supply situation/packer stranglehold on the industry. There was an opportunity for that in the Beef Initiative days post BSE. That failed in large part due to producer apathy and unwillingness to participate and adopt age verification quickly enough. That window of opportunity is gone.

A big concern to me is the animal health aspect particularly with regard to FMD. I don't want to see several million animals slaughtered needlesley because we don't have the ability to properly and swiftly track movements. I think we are wide open to this at the moment and I think that is poor risk management as an industry.

I think some producers need to get their heads around the fact they are producing beef for human consumption even if they are only selling weaned calves. In this day and age there is an expectation from consumers regarding traceability of their food. I think the days of guys dropping cattle off at the auction once a year with no information as to their upbringing, health status drug treatments etc are just about over. As a consumer I think it's about time too.

Those are my concerns gcreekrch. Regardless of my views you must realise expansion of bureaucracy is a feature of a mature society that has already taken care of the fundamentals like food, shelter and employment. It is job creation to an extent but nothing you or I say is going to reverse this trend. I think we would be better placed accepting the inevitable - we are going to have a traceability system and turn our attention instead to making sure it is the best, most workable one we can have. Addressing your concerns about not seeing your cattle for long periods of time is a good example. I think traceability on an operation like yours need not be complex. There is no proposal to track where your cows are every day. I believe from what I've read before you trail your cattle to different locations you own, rent or graze and I see no reason why these should even be traced during these movements. I would think in your case it's simply a matter or recording on/off ranch movements when they come or go to auctions or bull sales. I think that is the kind of battle we should be fighting - to ensure we get workable rules. Stating that "we don't need or want any traceability system and anything introduced won't work" will not result in a favourable response or desirable outcome from Government in my opinion.

[gcreekrch]

You have several good points there GF but..... the original proposal for tracking was from pasture to pasture or every 1/4 section. That mindset is still somewhere in the mind of the CFIA. It is a good thing that the SSGA and the WSGA have been actively and not passively staying informed on this issue and aggressively negotiating what cattle people can viably do. It seems most of the other organizations have learned to hang their heads in acceptance of whatever the govt. hands down as a good practice and then hold their hand out for another welfare cheque.
I really doubt that there is a larger percentage of consumers even know the where/what/how of meat production than otherwise.
If there was a guarantee that having a life story accompanying every animal I raise following it through harvest that I was to be well paid for the effort I would be behind tracability completely. However there is not so I will not.

[grassfarmer]

GC, from the CFIA document above.

"4 For the purposes of this paper, “Linked Premises” are all those premises which are considered as a single
epidemiological (animal health) unit because of the regular movement of animals/products between them."

That would indicate to me that CFIA are prepared to take a reasonable approach to several premisis owned managed by one person. I know I have only one premisis ID but in addition to the home place graze cattle on land owned by three other people.

On the guaranteed premium for supplying the calves life story I think you are being optimistic. The marketplace tends to work on a discount basis rather than premium basis - ie McDonalds announce they will only buy beef that has been sourced from farms meeting certain standards. They are not offering to pay a premium for it, they are saying they won't bid on it unless it meets these standards. Unfortunately that is a reality in a marketplace where the producer has almost no power and he buyer has a lot. The only way around this is producer initiatives - pasture to plate with the opportunity to extract a premium. Canada Gold is doing this as are Prairie Heritage and a few others. Not nearly enough doing it to upset the applecart of the existing packer/retailer stranglehold.

[per]

Gf, you state that the marketplace only discounts and then give two examples of market driven traceability that extracts a premium in the marketplace. Unless it is market driven it just doesn't or wont see complete uptake. Interesting also that the smaller value chains don't end up with a fair shake compared to the two larger plants in terms of government support and higher costs due to economy of scale of the larger plants.

If traceability is to work there has to be ongoing value. Yes FM is the disease poster child that could be a reality but a cumbersome system with poor uptake doesn't help. To go down this road we need a simple one time fool proof system that adds value. Not much appetite out there to keep bumbling along in this broken down VW.

[ASRG]

Although I can see a benifit to the tracibility issue, I have always questioned why I have to pay for it? Food safety is the governments responsibility and if they have decided RFID tags are the way to go.....then they should be paying for it....the tag, the labor, and the shrink! Maybe at each sale barn/ community pasture/packing house they could build a set of corrals and hire some boys to tag all the cattle as they come off the truck? Or maybe pay the farmer to tag them at home?
How much should you be getting paid? Well...what does the sale barn charge you if you have an untagged animal....my neighbor says $20, but I don't know if that is right? Pay me $20 per animal and I'll be happy to comply! Instead they make it the law I do their work....for free!
True story: Last fall I had 6 cows to sell. Two needed to be retagged and as I was all alone I tried to just retag in the chute. Of course one of the cows was a snorty old thing and slammed my hand up against the chute and broke a finger....about that time I figured she could stay home for another week! Me and the other 5 made it to town, got unloaded,then off to the hospital to get patched up! The next week, freshly tagged with some help from a neighbor, she made the trip solo. Cost me another half tank of gas and a wasted morning....how much did that cost me? Maybe the $20 the auction would have charged would have been cheaper?

[grassfarmer]

Per, my point on the premiums was that although a few small initiatives have been and are successful in achieving premiums we missed a chance to take the majority of the Canadian cattle industry forward on that basis. If we had been able to acomplish that the Canadian beef brand would have had a higher profile on the world market and we could also have wrestled some power back to the producer level. That was my hope.

[per]

I hear you Gf. The pragmatist in me notes that we are right here right now. We have to look at where we want to go from here and figure out how to get there. Plenty of opportunities were lost since 2003 in my opinion but that was then and this is now. I am afraid our half measure attempt at traceability using outdated technology has hurt the good will from the grass roots that is necessary to get it right. The pieces to put this all together exist but it will take plenty of conversation to reshape into something that is useful and acceptable to the primary producer.

[grassfarmer]

Per what's the outdated technology? Certainly not the RFD tags they have huge possibilities but thus far we are using them like bar code dangle tags with the only advantage being the kill plants can read them easier. That really is a huge waste of a $3 electronic tag.

[per]

Well there is UHF technology that can be read from a distance that would be useful to a rancher for one. Certainly we can do better that the current style of ear tag. Since SADIES ear tag story I have taken a close look at my own herd. Many tags are cracked and some have lost the brass ring even though they still look intact.

[BTOfarmallll]

Happytrails, might be able to take SOME pointers from Tom on running a campaign. Reason I say SOME is becuase he lost a Million trying to get elected, but i'm sure hes got some useful info. Anyway I would be THEE first to vote fer yous. This is exactly the kind of thinking the Industry needs or the good ole days gon be lookin alot gooder than they are today. QuackGrassFarmer likes the tags so much, it kin buy everybodies then. Tear down all the God Damn barb wire, yous aint need it anyway, thought yous all Cow guys from way back. WE ain't need no Freakin Tag in the Cows ear. Let the SOB's go hungry, don't bother me, we'll find someone else that don't care about the tag to buy our Beef. That Simple......

[Happytrails]

Must be doing something right when you are between BTO and GF.

And GF what am I missing about the "huge potential" of the RFID tag. My understanding and experience is that it will reveal a number to a scanner and that is it. Any information associated with that number is done in a data base. HT

[per]

Sure hope everyone had a shower.

[SADIE]

Here we go on RFID eartags again.

Per--Outdated technology is very correct. Pannel scanners especially like the ones that were tried in the auction markets and community pastures have a huge "Flaw" in readability of the RFID data. RFID eartag placement is also a concern. Feedback from producers and seminars on the current scanners have problems when the RFID eartag is placed according to the eartag specks to be placed deep in the ear next to the "brain"---scanners have difficulty reading those placements.

Problems of retention, problems of current scanners readability of the RFID eartags.

Research has shown that there is much better technology available at a much lower cost. Lets abort the archaic RFID plastic tag ASAP.

Per--those RFID eartags that are breaking down at the "washer" back of the ear. Don't forget once you have an animal that bears the RFID eartag and number is in the data base ----under law you have to keep a new RFID eartag in that animal and cross-reference and deregister the RFID number that is being lost and use the new RFID tag number.


Per---Western Producer--May 19 2011 Rage 65---Great picture.

[Kathy]

Why are we reviewing yet another government proposed legislation when, we can't even look at the (Alberta) legislation that has been passed in the Legislature but awaits proclamation (a formality). The Animal Health Amendment Act:

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?page=2009CH17_UNPR.cfm&leg_type=Acts&isbnc ln=9780779741755

This Act contains the death nails to the cattle industy and we (the industry) ignore it like the plague.

Traceability of living creatures that are NOT confined to a building, roam freely over sections of land, weigh enough to kill you when they run over you and have a mean temper at times - doesn't work.

Also the problem with the gestopo type CFIA control (under an international body OIE) means as Canadians we are being GOVERNED by a non-elected New World Order bureacracy.

Forget the FACTS that human health problems associated with Food, are more to do with MODERN agriculture practices. I don't want to participate in a "discussion" on legal matters when the ENDGAME is to put the family farm out of business. CFIA can KMA.

[Happytrails]

Well put Kathy. There are some pretty big meetings coming up they being Sask stockgrowers, Canadian auction markets assn, and ABP. It will be interesting to see if the light of day penetrates the ball rooms any better than it does the board rooms. HT