Big Time Cold!

[cowman]

This is the third morning it has been -32 or colder. I guess we had to get a taste of winter seeing how it has been so balmy.
With this cold weather a person has to be really on top of things. Wet babies don't last long in this weather. And remember don't forget those ears...the most expensive cut on a beef animal! Or so the cattle buyers would seem to think!!
What I do if I have a calf with "frosty" ears is use old panty hose. Just cut a hole in the crotch, pull them up over the calfs eyes and tie the legs around his neck. Holds his ears close to his body so they won't freeze. Another way is wide masking tape. Just tape his ears close to his body. You don't have to recatch him to take off the masking tape as it will break down in about a week.

[Muttley]

I have been calving in the cold winter for number of years. One of the things that makes my nights and days longer is trying to warm up frozen or cold calves. The ears are especially important as I have lost ears on calves that could have been selected for special purebred shows or sales.
I have built a hotbox out of a old barn stall. It is about 3'wide and 5'long, all inclosed in with a electric heater inside to thaw calves. I am able to open one side enough for mom to stick her head in or for the calf to come out if wanted. The other building I have is a insulated barn 30x40 with no heat. When a few cows are inside, even calves with frozen ears thaw out on their own.
This all has allowed me to toss a calf in the hotbox, or a pair in the barn and bugger off back to bed for awile or to do some other work. I very seldom have a big problem with cold calves since doing all this.
Just last night I had a heifer calve in -40 temp. I put mom and baby in the barn and this morning the calve is warm up sucking and no sign of ear problems.
It is my thinking to calve earlier for the breeding stock market that I am trying to reach. I calve most of my commercial cows out after March 1st. I am prepared for this weather, many of my neighbors are starting to calve now without proper buildings or preperation for this cold weather. If I had only commercial cows I think there would be a good chance I would calve April and May when I know it would be warm, to much chance of this cold weather still in March.

[gopher]

Big time cold here in So. Alta also -- night before last it was -38. ( this is chinook country - more like Yukon chinook ! ) The folks around here are in the middle of calving too but it seems to be a difficult year. It seems like an abnormal number of hard deliveries like - legs back - calves coming backwards - weak or dead calves and problem twin births. I wonder if this is the case everywhere ?

[Muttley]

I hear mention of a lot of calving difficulties as well. I think much of it is the feed this winter, many are cutting back more than they should. I cut back on feed more than any other year but it is important to feed quality as much as quantity. This means making sure the minerals and vitamins are fed.
Even though my cows are not laying in feed I have fed properly. I feel this has been o.k. as the calves are born healthy, up quickly and no apparent physical problems.

[cowman]

It is always sort of a trade off about what time a person calves. Now the "experts" tell us we shouldn't be calving until later. It is the "right" way to do things. What they don't realize is there is no set "right" way! What works for one doesn't for another. I calve early because I like to, I'm set up for it, and I have enough help. If I didn't have the facilities I would not be calving in this type of weather. If I was starting out I would not build the facilities I now have.
I hear stories of cows out in eastern Alberta being fed nothing but straw and in real tough shape. I just shudder to think how they hold up in this weather! I don't understand the mentality behind this....I mean why bother? Why not sell them in the fall? If the grass comes they can restock.
And then there is the other extreme! My neighbor has about 20 cows. They get barley,concentrate, molasses and 2nd cut hay! They are the fattest cows you have ever seen. Another neighbor says if reincarnation is true he hopes he comes back as one of this guys cows. The amazing thing is he doesn't have a lot of calving problems...these are BIG simmental cows and he breeds them angus. And those calves are as good as any in the fall. I don't believe he is too concerned about whether he makes any money or not.

[cowman]

This same neighbor is kind of a health food freak and is always laying the wisdom on me about all the things that would be good for me! He's real big on sharks cartilage and hydrogen peroxide. He actually pours peroxide in his cows waterer! Says it keeps them real healthy! And if he has a calf with a snotty nose or dirty butt he catches him and gives him a little peroxide!!! Says it works wonders!!
This isn't your regular old peroxide but some sort of food grade peroxide. It seems a little strange but I guess it works for him. He is pretty much up on all this health stuff and the way he explains it, it sort of makes sense. So who knows maybe I'll be putting back a few peroxides tonight!!!

[corine]

We are also having calving problems such as weak twins, calves that won't get up and suck, some deformed calves and some calves that seem to have nervous system damage, and are starting to suspect a reaction to IBR/BVD vaccine, as our feed is tested (barley/pea silage, protein over 11%)and we're also adding good minerals. The vet is coming out to do some blood tests, so we'll know some more then I guess. The vaccine is supposed to be safe for pregnant cows, though.

[cowman]

I've always been a little shaky about those killed IBR/bvd vaccines since I had a little wreck about 15 years ago. I'd only used the two shot dose on the heifers and I had one hell of a time. I got all these stupid calves that had no suck reflex. I only had about 10 hfrs. but I think I had to mess around with about 7 of them. I mean I was tubing these calves up to four days. They eventually did get going but were kind of a useless bunch who never did really shine.
The only other thing I thought could be a problem might have been mold. I had a few bales that were baled on an oil lease and they were pretty "stink weedy" and probably baled a little tough. That could have been the problem! Anyway...I make sure my hfrs. get the right shot before they become familiar with a male and I don't even consider feeding that kind of feed to a pregnant female. And the problem is gone!

[cowman]

Oh, incidently Corine, I have a friend up around Mayerthorpe,Alta. who had a little abortion storm about a month ago. He was feeding a bit of last years straw and he got a little wreck....5 abortions! It was mold! I am in no way saying that is your problem. Just a thought! But a good one to eliminate!

[Muttley]

I had problems a few years ago with weak calves, couldn't stand so they didn't suck and got weak.
The vet figured we had BVD or a disease at least. We purchased some pretty expensive medicine.
Well it turned out to just be a selenium problem. Started giving shote and our problem ended.
As for mold, we use a processor, this way if there is poor feed in a bale one or two cows will not pig out on it.

[Muttley]

I had problems a few years ago with weak calves, couldn't stand so they didn't suck and got weak.
The vet figured we had BVD or a disease at least. We purchased some pretty expensive medicine.
Well it turned out to just be a selenium problem. Started giving shots and our problem ended.
As for mold, we use a processor, this way if there is poor feed in a bale one or two cows will not pig out on it.

[corine]

Thanks for the replies.
Yep, tubing for 4 days seems about the start of it. Like Cowman, the problems are in a pretty specific group, only in cows that have been home-raised and never vaccinated before, so that's why we think this may be it. The cows are getting 16-16 (which has selenium) mixed into their ration at the recommended amount, and also get salt blocks with selenium in them. Whatever it is, it is pretty frustrating. And the cold doesn't help either Hopefully, things will warm up soon.

[bombay_43]

Corin, just like cowman, we had a wreck some 10 years ago. 2 years in a row,we lost 16 calves during or right after calving. Weak, stupid, not wanting to suck, some died from infections although we were using clean needles. Many calves from the heifers, were born with a heart beat, but too weak to take their first breath!

Turned out to be BVD in both years! Only way to test for sure,is to send a dead calf away for testing. Results take a long time. Somewhere around 4 to 6 weeks.

After all the info that we sorted through, I believe BVD to be a much larger problem than people think.

Although our vet was involved in a vaccination program the first year, it turned out that the second dose was not administered far enough in advance of breeding season, to allow antibodies to develop in the cows blood.

Also found out that a certain percentage of cows become carriers of BVD, and will never develop imunity. Not through vaccine, and not through having the disease.

We culled really heavy the second year. Anything that lost a calf. Also give a booster shot every spring now to all our cows! We have had the odd adverse effect from the BVD vaccines used on pregnant animals,if they calved shortly after it was administered. Not many thankfully. The risk of the vaccine outways the risk of not using it.

Do not let anyone tell you that one year of vaccinating them is sufficient! They do not retain immunity, and we have found a booster shot every year prevented further outbreaks. Never used anything but the killed vaccine.

[corine]

A few questions about some items in this thread, as I'm always trying to find new ways to do things:

When you tape the ears on a calf, do you use duct tape or the white tape used when you paint?
Also, about the peroxide, what type and how much would one use? I've heard of people using virkon as a treatment for viral scours, but I haven't heard how it is used or what dosage to use. Has anyone heard of this too?

We have used an egg from time to time (together with the usual treatments), with mixed results. Now we are giving them a bolus of First Defense, which are antibodies against e-coli and rota/ corona virus and this seems to work OK.

[cowman]

Corine I use just plain old masking tape. Not duct tape although that would work too. The masking tape doesn't have to be removed as it breaks down in about a week. As far as the peroxide thing I don't know what kind it was. He buys it at a health food store and he tells me it a food grade peroxide. He also tells me that all the "Kentucky fried chicken" is soaked in this peroxide to make it white!