What Happens When Our Power Prices Increase in a Big Way?

[ASRG]

I attended the Keith Wilson/ Joe Anglin meeting at Rocky Mountain House last night.What I heard (backed up by some pretty credible data) made me wonder just how much "value addded" meat products will be processed once food prep companies have to start paying for the AltaLink and ATCO export lines?
When the "upgrades" are all finished (and if they come in on budget) transmission rates, for commercial operations, will drive up the total electricity bill by 300%! Several large food processing companies have testified under oath at the Heartland hearings that if power costs go up that much they will be forced to leave the province for areas that have a better cost structure?
Refrigeration electrical costs make up close to 2/3 of power used in packing plants.
The beef packers claim they operate on a slim margin and huge power increases will drive them into the red! If we loose Cargill and Lakeside XL where will our market lie? Does it make anyone nervous that perhaps they might relocate to the USA if power rates drive them out of Alberta? What happens to the breaking plants when they can't access western Canadian beef and their own refrigeration costs skyrocket?
How will this affect the feeding industry in Alberta? Is this the end of the beef business in Alberta?

[burnt]

Oh don't worry about the packers there chappie! They will get by just fine by paying even less for their "raw product"! And then cry to the government that they still cannot get by without another shot of corporate welfare!

The real threat is that the cattle numbers in Canada get so low that the big packers can no longer source enough cattle to keep their chains full.

While I could not care less if they stay in business, their closure will cause some real pain in the cattle industry until their replacements get up and running to provide a market for our beef and a product to our stores.

The big packers are only an impediment to a prosperous cattle industry in North America.

[Cattleman]

Burnt, just curious what your thoughts are regarding how the big packers' replacements will improve the industry? Or is it related to all the changes that will occur in the supply chain?

[rkaiser]

There were three dogs sitting in front of a meat shop drooling over the steaks hanging in the window front cooler. One was a bankers dog, one was a thief's dog and one dog was owned by one of the Alberta multinational packers.

The bankers dog said, just wait here guys, I will go get some money and we can get ourselves a couple of those steaks.

The thief's dog said, shit guys, there's a rock over there. I'll get us as many steaks as we can carry off in a heartbeat.

The Cargill / Xcel dog said, come on guys, all we have to do is whine to the Alberta Government, ABP, and CCA and they will give us anything that we want.

Don't worry, ASRG, those big dogs ain't going anywhere.

Still think there is room for a new dog however.

[grassfarmer]

The powerline scandal is a big problem for sure but as long as the majority blindly vote PC they will continue to rule as they please.
Burnt, you are rather missing the point - this will affect processors large and small, it will increase the custom processing costs I and every other non-commodity marketer has to pay as well as the large packers. If the big packers decide to leave the country - which they could do by relocating in the US quite easily and continue to access Canadian cattle start up packers to "replace the existing ones" won't be likely. If the existing ones can't pay the power bills how could start up companies that don't get millions of dollars of Government funding? Bill 50 is very bad news for business in Alberta and we must do all in our power to stop it.

[ASRG]

grassfarmer is very correct when he says this goes far beyond two big packers. The industrial users group has testified in the Heartland hearings that they will not be able to continue to operate, in Alberta, under the cost structure the Bill 50 lines will impose on them (with actual figures)? That means a major loss of jobs and an even further increase in electricity costs to businesses and individuals who remain!
Unfortunately most Albertans will have to pay.
On top of that most people don't realize they will be paying some serious dollars through taxes for the carbon capture scheme over the next 40 years....to the tune of over $3 billion a year. Instead of the tarsand and coal fired generation companies paying the price to make their product "green".....it will be you... through increased taxes.
The carbon capture scheme is a scandal that most people haven't woken up to yet. It's coming and it will cost everyone dearly!

[burnt]

Cattleman - Probably wouldn't improve the industry at all, on further thought, unless there were several smaller operations that would improve competition for the supply. Not much chance of that happening.

I guess things are unfolding as they must, all around.

[per]

Jeepers, go away for a day and a good discussion breaks out.

[BTOfarmallll]

Yous heard him Boys & Girls, Kin't Beat The Big Dogs, Might as well Join em'. Rkaiser already did. First one to The Table to get that Steak, He ain't Stupid!!!!!!!!!

[rkaiser]

Three discussions here.

Do we need to stop these bills that will affect all of us - yes.

Will the big packers leave Alberta if the laws are passed - I don't believe they will.

Does B - lame T - he O - ther guy Farmall sell his products to a multinational; and buy his imputs from a multinational? We are not sure. Obviously however, he would rather keep the status quo than start or support something new.

[per]

Too bad these are not Bills we are trying to stop. They are proclaimed Acts that add up to the need for a bigger change. Some of the PC wannabe Premiers will address part of the problem but I doubt any will address the 4 Acts that we really need fixed. I believe 24, the Pore Space regulatory taking, will turn out to be the most egregious of all. I am hopeful for changes on 50 as more and more lies are revealed will make it impossible to continue and several wannabe Premiers promise to deal with it. What a mess.

Not too many of us don't deal with a multi national at some time. Fertilizer, chemical, packer (if they go to Cargill) or even new tires or groceries. I like the 100 mile idea but also like mandarin oranges.

[rkaiser]

Mmmm mandarin oranges. Or what about one of my biggest addictions.... My pickup truck. Went from a Dodge to a Toyota last year --- whoops still a multinational company.

How do we deal with Alta Link? I am not sure, but I am learning how not to deal with them. We like to believe that taking on the fear and punishment techniques that industrial age companies and governments have adopted in the past will help us. Not. Vocal support seems to make more sense to me than vocal condemnation.

Who or what can we find to support in this province regarding power.

Kathy has posted a wonderful article on prion progress. Much easier to read and accept than fear and dire predictions.

What we resist persists....... creativity prevails.

[ALLFARMER]

An old farmer once told me "little dogs can still piss all over them big wheels"

I think that packers have been too greedy for too long and with the herd numbers of today combined with good grain prices will have some hurt commin there way. Also runnin cattle is work and a large portion of the population in not interested in doing physical work anymore.

As one Nilsson cattle rep once told me there is less cattle left out there than people think there is.

[Cattleman]

My thought on the big packers is there are always going to be some around. If more smaller plants would pay more for cattle, there is nothing stopping anyone from doing that right now.
As we get larger commodity beef producers, it will help move the volumes of beef we produce, and also leave behind some bigger gaps in the market to be filled by niches, and we are starting to see some of that already.

[chans]

I have read the comments that you have posted and wonder if you realize the other bills this Alberta Government passed without our knowledge? Power(and other essential services) pour space, right to property etc. Alberta has become a vacum of brain power in the legislation area and am wondering if the voters have the same vacum space? We should all be attending the Keith Wilson presentations and get to know what is really meant by the legislation of these bills (as they are presented in very legal terms and tend to be only for the eyes and ears of the people who have crafted and written these laws) and what our politicians are doing to the main stay albertan. Now do your political homework and check around to see how this affects you and all of us, now and in the future as I am sure what I heard from the political backdrop was "we didn't intend for that interpertation" will hold no validity in the future. What is written now will be a fight for the future of not only for agriculture but all other commodities and personal venues in the future. Get Pro Active not Re Active.