Korea lifts ban on Canadian beef

[rkaiser]

Poke all you like gaucho - my skin is becoming more like the feathers on ducks back every year. Everything simply runs where it is supposed to run.

How much capacity do you think the boys at CPM are going to handle. We were having a hard enough time getting a load or two killed last fall let alone a contract for 500 head a week.

You know darn well what the potential market for implant free barley fed truly CANADIAN beef is.

[BTOfarmallll]

I think Randy is trying to say everything is water off a ducks back to him. He a big money, heavy weight, walk around the Club, like F*ck everybody, Wall Street buying his Bulls now........

[rkaiser]

Hugs and kisses to you's and yer's BTO.

[gaucho]

Randy you are so right that there are all sorts of markets that will buy 500 head a week and even 5000 for that matter.... but finding guys that will actually pay you enough to make money on those numbers is another thing.... If it were that easy why is Celtic cattle still at the level it is? I have no problem getting kills done at CPM every week... its because I am also there every week with steady business.... As they say walk before you run... selling the whole animal from the cheeks to the tails and everything in between is easier said than done if you want to make the numbers work.... I am glad I just have to look after marketing and not trying to run a plant, look after HR and having to deal with CFIA and regulatory... maybe you should be an apprentice for Werner and Yvo for a week and you might start thinking and talking a bit straighter

[rkaiser]

Ahhh yes gauchopper --- thinking straighter ---- that's the solution ...

Or as I am starting to believe - the problem. Especially if you get stuck thinking with the five metastasizing cancerous C's. Criticizing, comparing, contending, competing,and complaining. Replace them all with creative thinking and whalla --- goodness. Those you leave behind can whallo in the other five while you move forward.

I am pretty sure we can find another Yvo or Werner in the world and even another marketer that comes close to your expertise. I sure the hell don't plan on doing everything myself fer cryin out loud.

Don't worry too much about Canadian Celtic and Second to None Meats. This is not about our little niche market trying to survive in the shark invested waters of natural beef marketing in Calgary Alberta.

Oh yes, BTO farmall - my five fendered friend - have a look at those five C's as well. I have watched many of the same films as you have and even watched another one that you posted on the commodity thread tonight. Lot's of good stuff there. Could simply work on your approach and / or sales technique. You come across like a bit of a loonie tune, and so do many of the other folks trying to sell something other than the conventional theories. Try not to think too much and especailly not dualistic-ally. There is never only right and wrong. There is always an alternative and it is most quickly and easily reached somewhere down the middle of the road. HUGZ

[gaucho]

Randy your 5 c's....all come down to one word.... be realistic... It gets a little tiring after a while constantly hearing its all about owning the plants. I get calls every week about opportunities here and opportunities there.... so many containers of this and that and when you tell them the price they go quite and their comment is but the American and Australians sell for this, to which I reply I don't care and these are our prices.... The world is just learning that producing beef costs money and to get it they must pay for it. The big contention of our costs in Canada to the US is CFIA regulatory costs and labor.... Canadian Packing plant labor is $15-$20 / hour with benefits.... US is Mexican Slave labor.... those are some of the differences that make it an extra challenge on this side of the borders. I certainly don't know it all and I am still learning every day.. that said it does get a little tiring hearing the answers from the arm chair quarterback about ridiculous demand numbers for natural beef (show me the money!) and its all about the packers and anybody that wants to give some real experience is just a nay Sayer. I am not trying to belittle anyone's marketing efforts for beef but be real, selling in the volumes and keeping prices up is easier said than done.

[rkaiser]

One thing about a realist gaucho - you can count on him / her to show you all the problems that you need to overcome. Same with watching all those, who I do give credit for trying, from my armchair...LOL

Keep trying and showing us the challenges bud, it will be much easier for us that way.

Cheers

[grassfarmer]

Interesting discussion on demand, volume, price and profitability. I'm maybe missing the point but from my perspective why would you want to recreate the commodity system for a premium beef product? Why do you need 500 head a day supply chain? Isn't it smarter to keep numbers smaller but retain a bigger margin?
In my limited(numbers wise)experience I have found demand is increasing for our product anywhere from 50-100% a year with an advertising and promotion budget of considerably less than $200 a year on average. We are setting the price we require to ensure a healthy margin and have absolutely no desire to be involved in a "producer initiative" to either own or operate a packing plant or be involved in a large scale joint venture with other producers. My observation in recent years has been that 90% of producers interested in these producer initiatives really have no interest in the end product or doing the work to achieve the enhanced returns. Most want to unload weaned calves or yearlings as they have always done and hope someone else will do all the work and present them with a premium at the end of the day.
It's ironic that I'm often mis-portrayed as a socialist because of my association with the NFU. I reckon I'm the free market entreupreneur and the dreamer cowboys waiting for someone else to do the work to set up a producer initiative supply chain are the ones with the more socialist tendencies.

[gaucho]

I agree 100% Grassfarmer and your point is well well taken... could not agree with you more about how many producers that value chains are suppose to work.... let someone else do all the work and all they want to do is drop of the calves and get a premium without putting anything else in!We are making good margin on the cattle going through now but it took 6 years to get to where we are at today and even then you have to watch how much you produce and balance it with the demand that is actually willing to pay the premiums needed to make it work... sway to much supply into it and margins kill very quickly.... Heritage Angus goal 10,000 per year in order to minimize the overhead cost on administration and also have enough volume to get the key accounts so that we do not short our value added production. This coming year we will break close to 6000 head

[rkaiser]

Talking about producers being selfish and socialist is not going to get many on board the value chain train boys. Offering them return as well as ownership will. I am sure that your producers own shares in your company gaucho, but what does that entail? I have always been a real estate investor (on a small scale BTO buddy)myself and it seems to me that most farmers and ranchers have that stuck in their heads as well.

As for implant free beef becoming a commodity. Come on boys, we are already there. And that is a little bit of "reality" for you gaucho. 8 years ago in Calgary -- Canadian Celtic had the market pretty much cornered. We moved retail prices up for years until the game looked good and the next value chain animal up the food chain came to town. Now we not only have Heritage Angus, but it looks like NB and Bern are going to take a run at dropping prices as well.

But hay - that's life and so is the fact that implant free beef is becoming more than an E.U. request by offshore consumers.

If you want to stay small grassfarmer, stay ahead of the game with more innovation than implant free product, or stick with your grass fed stuff. I don't see and mid sized value chains heading the grass fed route any time soon. I took is personally grassfarmer, when the then chairman of ABP called BIG C socialist for asking for a government backed loan to fund our producer owned plant proposal and am now on a private investment path because of it.

Sorry I could not get back to you quicker gaucho, not only had to get out of my armchair, but fell out of my hammock and hurt my typing wrist. LOL Actually working on marketing along with investment capital hunting which some of the failed reality based marketers say needs to be done ahead of time.

reality - a state of - or present condition of - real. usually due to past and beliefs and built on experience.

And this is where every one's reality is a little bit different.

My reality says that everything changes every day and if you look back - actually got better - every day.

Kind of speaks of a future that might just do it again.

Forge on bravely you two "g"ood guys.

[smcgrath76]

We have been burned with plant ownership
and lesson learned. If plants are a
great investment, wouldn't more people
from outside of agriculture be building
them? That said, we would not turn down
the right opportunity if it came our
way, but we would ask a lot different
questions than the last time around.
I agree with the value chain thing
becoming a commodity, but that is the
challenge of finding your point(s) of
differentiation. The more
differentiated you are, or the more
challenging the management aspect
becomes, the more difficult it is to
duplicate. Example: hormone free is
relatively easy, hormone free/VBP type
audit is harder, hormone
free/VBP/Producer profiled (owned) is
even harder, hormone free/VBP/Producer
faced/grass finished is harder again,
etc.
Each layer of challenge can create an
earned competitive advantage, with the
trick being to convert that difference
into margin. Why is there not more
grassfed when the margins are good? My
thoughts are that it is a hell of a lot
harder than finishing on grain, and a
hell of a lot harder than selling at a
presort in the fall. Add to that the
fact that a lot of cattle are kept as a
recreational pursuit where profit does
not drive the train, and the easy
marketplace (selling calves at auction)
is one with very little earned advantage
available.
Pick your advantages carefully, and
market the heck out of them.