Value Added!

[cowman]

In the last edition of the Canadian Cattleman the editor had a little rant about how if you aren't part of a value chain then you might as well pack your bags and get out! Makes me wonder if this guy has ever sat in a mart in his life? Or knows which end of the cow to feed?
Now listen very CAREFULLY... There is a market for every kind of beef! Everything sells! Yes fads come and fads go! Two years ago you couldn't give a Simmental away... now this year you just top the market!!! The angus breed was the real thing the last few years...well actually not last fall!!
This whole idea of the ideal breed is just a bunch of B.S. Any breed can be fed to achieve just about whatever grade you want. Yes some get fat easier than others...and some have a lot more muscle than others(read that meat). Now for today fat is in(we call it marbling and somehow equate it to tenderness and quality, when in fact it is only fat!) but in the long run, we know meat is what we are selling! Or at least I hope you know that?
A wise old boy once told me"Don't get caught up in all the fads. The ONLY thing that matters to you is pounds! Because that is what you get paid for, not color, or fat, or how pretty!" And wasn't he right???At least in the long run?
Now any value chain based on breed is a con game. Completely useless in the real world! Selling smoke and mirrors and B.S.! Avoid them like the plague because even though they might be good in the short term in the end they will drag you down. Certified Angus Beef would be about the worst one I've ever heard of!

[rodbradshaw]

Cowman
These programs are to promote the consumption of beef. Even the Certified angus program only means it had one parent that was an angus. If you can brand your product and people like it you should be alright, after all look at things like Coca Cola.
rod

[cowman]

Here is why I don't like this program(and there are other breed specific programs out there so its not just Angus).
To qualify as certified angus beef one parent must be registered. On a commercial operation that would be the bull. And that's fine...the angus breeder gets to sell a registered bull. Now the commercial breeder has a bunch of half angus hfrs. and he must buy another registered bull if he hopes to stay in the program. Over a series of years what happens? Well he has a straight bred herd of angus cows but he cannot outcross them because one parent must be registered. Meanwhile Joe Blow down the round is busy breeding all his jersey and holstein cows to a registered angus bull and getting his calves certified!
I don't think there is anybody in the beef business who denies the benfits of heterosis? In fact I would suggest to you that for commercial cattle it is the most important economic tool we have? I think the figures are something like a 20% increase in production efficiency for the three way cross. What this program does is move beef cattle science back 40 years. Can you imagine if the hog business or for that matter the broiler business was run like this? We need more efficent production if we ever intend to compete with poultry and pork! This program is more about selling angus bulls than about what is good for the beef industry.
Yes certified angus beef is a good product...I would suggest to you it is because of the way they are fed and aged more so than the breed. Sterling beef is just as good or maybe better and it is not breed specific...but they do rely on grade and aging, just like certified angus beef.

[rodbradshaw]

Cowman, your right it is a way for Angus breeders to sell angus Bulls, no different than the John Deere dealer giving you a higher trade in value on that old clunker but he keeps you coming back to his store.

The Broiler industry is very specific in its breed. Maple Leaf is using only one breed for its birds in Alberta. They just rely on the company to put the genetics into the bird that they want. If it ever falls apart they will simply change and move to the next company that can produce the bird that they desire

[cowman]

Now I am not really up on the chicken business but I can almost guarantee that one broiler breed would be a composite breed? Probably inbred back to establish it but lets be very precise here...not a breed like plymouth rocks or whatever...once again...I am pretty ignorant about the chicken business!
I stress once again I'm not against Angus cattle! They are a big part of the makeup of my cows! The thing I object to is "purebredism". It is not in the best interests of the commercial industry...and after all isn't that what it really is all about? Yes we do need purebreds, but only to supply the outcross genetics for the commercial man.

[paladin]

Cowman, you've made some good points and touched on some issues that I am sympathetic with. In our own experience with feeding cattle, I have long believed that today's industry grossly underestimates the true value of feed in carcass quality. Certainly genetics plays a factor, but perhaps somewhat less than the purebred industry would have you believe. I also feel that breed specific branded programs don't really enhance the efficiency of the commercial cow-calf operation, however it would seem that the consuming public (which understands little about agriculture, let alone beef production issues) is a fan of being able to hang a 'brand name' on the meat they buy.

[paladin]

Cowman -I havn't yet read the article - whosomever I've sold calves at the mart, and the problem there is they just sell on the average. Top that with the fact that they really arn't in a position to market cattle. Yeh they can sell them, and sell them they do. But market them that's a different story. If you catch a bunch of weights at some feedyards you'll find often a 300lb. spread in incomming cattle, from auction marts. I hope the National Id program opens a brand new way of marketing calves with a "report card". I know I'm not that old however I do remember the days when just the canners and cutters and junk sold at the mart. The good ranch calves were bought on the ranch by buyers who were stockman and came to the ranch to see the cattle. If a cow man isn't willing to tell Mrs. consumer that "I RAISED THAT THERE STAKE YOUR EATEN", with pride then he shouldn't be selling his calves along with mine.

[cowman]

I'm not disagreeing with your point of view. But it is only one point of view! Many of these so called off color calves or off type calves make the feeder the most money. I believe holstein steers are some of the best money makers around. And for a lot of people the bottom line is all that matters and they don't care how they get there! Personally I like a system like the mart because it is the best system for price discovery.
It is all about what a person wants out of it. There is no right way and there is no wrong way.

[bombay_43]

raratz: The only problem I have with your point of view, is that the "National ID program" is suppose to be used to track reportable disease in our country!

The misconception that you, and select other cattlemen have, is that this program will somehow inhance our sales. You are obviously under the impression that these tags will alllow buyers to track the cattle back to the "Good" producers. Thereby increasing demand for your product.

I am under the assumption, that these tags are to "promote beef consumption, through assurance of efficient traceback and containment of serious animal health and food safety problems."
(taken right off the CCIA information pamphlet)

So...if you are hoping to have someone use these ID tags to trace it back to your herd... you better have something seriously wrong, not something really really good to show them! That is not what they are designed for!

[bombay_43]

bombay_43. Your right, the National Id program is to provide a vehicle for national security. However it also provide's me and you with a vehicle to manage every animal as an individual, insted of taking the average. I can chose to use it for such or not. You can bet your bottom dollar that the ring side siter's at the mart are only working on averages.
Cowman - I agree with you on the branded beef's integrity. However if it encourages consemers to even persieve a better product and it increaces consumption for them then I quess "who am I to argue." I believe that as the Nat. ID program switches to RFID and down the road of time we will find the colour of the hide will become insignificant, and may make these promotions less effective. Case in point I bought a group of preg. heifers some years ago from a ranch that I knew the cow herd. Across the board they were either all red or brockel faces. The rancher because of my absence gat cut my group out of the larger bunch. I wound up with 2 feather necked candidates for the front page of the Herford digest. When I commented on that some months later he said "we havn't had a Herford bull in our cows for 30 years." And I have every confidence in his word. And old hand said to me years ago, "take their hide off and their all the same colour."

[cowman]

paladin: I am not against "branded products" as such. I think the Sterling Beef program has a lot of potential. I do not believe the cow/calf guy will ever see much of a benefit but the big feedlots probably will. And that is okay because they buy our cattle and if they are making a buck maybe some of it will trickle down?
This whole idea of grid selling is sort of a scam. A few years ago Western Feedlots decided they didn't want to feed any Simmental cattle. Anything that looked like it might have come within 5 miles of a Simmental bull was severely discounted! Now this was silly because solid black and red half blood Simmental calves were still pouring into Western.Which makes me wonder if grid selling is just another way cattle buyers can screw you.
Now as anyone who has fed cattle knows nothing feeds like an exotic(read that char cross and Sim cross) and they grade up there with the best. Now I'm talking about a british cow and a Sim or Char bull.
Now if you want to feed these little straight bred steers that is okay...but you'd better be able to extract one hell of a premium out of the market. And the present premium will not make up for the lost production! But if right now I can sell a half exotic steer as a straight bred and get the premium then of course I will be ahead.

[ValueChainFX]

Gotta love the challenge here guys, but check out some of the Branded programs today, (even the angus program) Stand in any processing plant and see how they pick the angus beef for that program, Hmmm wonder if the bull was Angus or not!!!! Either way the branded programs are designed as a marketing program that establishes guide lines hopefully giving some sort of consistant product at the end of the line.

Cowman said it earlier that ever product has a market and if you have a cow market and design specifications that are all in line with your type of carcass quality and can deliver that same product every time then there ya go guys a marketing program, yellow cows in their full glory hey call it "Golden Sunshine Alberta beef" age it 21 days, trim it very nice, package it pretty in black trays, and add a little extra per kg. Now you have a branded program. People have been burning these branded programs at both ends of the stick, they have almost reached the end of the line. People in the market place today are looking for real information they can trust, until we deliver that trust the rest is slowly gong into the sunset.

Rest easy cowman, you are always a steady as she goes kinda guy, you will always have a market for your product, but as long as the big guys control the price on the market, then you will always have your return based on their price and your ability to meet that by bringing your costs in under what they pay!

[cowman]

Value Chain: More and more I get frustrated with the whole system. I decided a long time ago that the whole ag system is stacked against the little guy. And quite frankly I like raising cows and I even enjoyed growing grain a way back when. But there came a time when I refused to work for free and pouring money into a bottomless pit.Why do farmers continue to work for MacDonalds wages and accept no return(or a negative return!)on their investment?
So in my case I invested in a business that would pay me interest and a very good living. My farm is in reality a hobby even though I have 150 cows.

[ValueChainFX]

Cowman

Like you the present system frustrates me. I have been in many meetings with producers over the past few weeks. I sit and listen to the discussions in front of me and shake my head to see how brain washed some can be. However, I to have been in the industry for many, many years, have worked for the big guys the little guys and myself. I know that the present system is not good and have made it my personal challenge to change whatever I can to make it better! As far as doing this with the help of the majority of the producers I have determined that those that accept the challenges will help and those that are locked into not helping will not. This is fine as one person that wants to change the world is more likely to then 100 that sit on the side and watch the world eat them up.

I am presently working on a total system that goes from farm to fork. You already know this from many discussions we had before in this forum. I guess what has changed now is that I actually have financial backing, the technology is 90% developed, I have a strong team of marketers, and most of the components are coming together well.

It will be nice when we see more people step forward as they see the system is designed to help them. Hey cowman, maybe one day we will see a fair system! I can only hope it is in our life time

Enjoy