Any bred cows heifers sold yet?

[grassfarmer]

It's funny how everyone is getting all excited about being in cows again. All the talk of expansion, $1100 cows, $1500 heifers, investing in infrastructure it seems the sky is the limit. Wasn't so much bold talk when bred cows were $400-$600. Typical of the counter market-cycle thinking that feeds the cycle, same as it feeds the stockmarket ups and downs. As long as the majority of participants sell low and buy high they will lose out on a lot of profit every time.
I'd much rather be buying beat up commodity stocks on the TSX than overpriced cows at the moment.

[per]

Gaucho brings up an interesting question around management and outside income. Being surrounded by "oil patch" ranches I have observed different types of management styles. Some manage their ranches like a hobby and have cattle because they like cattle, but most operate their ranches to give the best chance of profit. I would suggest Allfarmer manages more like a hobby ranch. Having said that, it is his prerogative to operate however he wants and who can deny the fun of having first class infrastructure.

So then comes the question. Do ranches that don't need to make a profit affect the market cycle? (either negatively or positively)

[perfecho]

Per, do believe that outside money does effect the prices. Know of a feedlot in our area who maintains that over half of his customers are in other forms of business and have feeders for tax reasons. Sometimes these people are not as concerned about profit as one totally involved in the ag world......however, perhaps this helps calf producers????
I do think there are a number of calf producers that are in it for other reasons, so maybe it is a wash. One thing I have learned is the most successful farms seem to have a successful business as well ;-)

[T.N.T.]

The stock market bores me to much to have my money in that.I will stick to investing as i always have in cattle and more land,and by the looks of my portfolio i haven't done to bad over all these years!!!

[ASRG]

Does outside money distort the cattle business?
Definitely! Very few of us started from scratch?
We either inherited it or married it, or got a sweetheart deal, or have the oil company paying us for leases, pipelines, royalties?
I have an older neighbor who is a millionaire several times over through smart investing. He farms the same place his grandfather homesteaded. Has top of the line new equipment, never scrimps on inputs. What he makes on his 1000 acres is chump change compared to his dividend checks! Is he a hobby farmer?
There is no "proper" way to raise cattle? No magic formula for being a super cattleman? Just whatever works for you.

[kato]

We started from scratch. With a half ton truck, a horse, and twenty pailfed holstein steers. And we've spent the last thirty seven years pulling rabbits out of our hats. Must be adrenalin junkies or something to live on the edge for that long. We're still here though, so we must be doing something right.

There are lots of different management systems out there, but not all will work on any given operation. I think the best approach is to cherry pick the best ideas that will work for you and don't worry what anyone else does.

To get back to the topic of the thread, I don't know what bred cows are going for yet around here, but there are lots of them advertised for sale. We're not interested right now ourselves though. The time to buy them up was about two years ago. We're more interested in keeping heifers and getting the herd younger.

[grassfarmer]

Wasn't the time to be keeping heifers and getting the herd younger about two years ago too?

[gaucho]

100% GF... if you calculate the 2 scenarios heifers or cows ... at today's prices you are better off to buy the bred cows and sell the calves... but like you said the opportunity was 2 years ago.... as far as the comments of subsidizing and off farm income, alot has to do with how much you want to spend on the lifestyle and the Bells and whistles you want with your ranch. Many want a lifestyle far beyond what their cows will earn in profits and or do not have enough of them to make a full time income from ... needless to say its no wonder they need an off farm income to make up for the difference, especially if they can't keep costs under control.

[smcgrath76]

GF - agreed.
Gaucho - the lifestyle issue also
affects those households with 2 jobs and
a mountain of credit card debt, etc.
Outside money certainly distorts the
marketplace, as it is hard to compete
with someone who doesn't care if they
are profitable, and maybe worse to
compete with those who don't know if
they are profitable.
I know hobby farms with 10 cows and
hobby farms with 1500 cows, and I know
serious farms with 10 cows and 1500
cows. There is a fine line between
"investing outside money" in a business
vs. using outside money to "support a
business".

[kato]

Hey, we kept a bunch of heifers two years ago! I guess we're learning. ;-)

[gaucho]

smcgrath76

One comment, credit card debt is all about choices.... The question to ask is it a want or a need... simple as that. I will just say something about mentality in Canadian agriculture, I work with some very progressive farmers in New Zealand... as many know there are no ag subsidies there ... either you sink or swim... when they make money on their farms no one rushes out to buy new toys or bells and whistles that they can brag about or show off in front of the post office while picking up the mail the neighbor... they will invest it in more land or livestock... every decision is based on bottom line profitability and ion keeping infrastructure and overhead to a minimum...its as simple as that... Hearing bleeding hearts about all the work and that there is no money in agriculture is getting old... its all about choices

[smcgrath76]

Gaucho - In the spirit of Sunday, amen to
that.

[tweaker101]

This is truly a modern day coffee row...the only thing is that I can't see what you drove up in....lol. I guess our operation is a cross between all of what was mentioned in the last few days but I do agree with the statement is it a need or a want...have a great night all.

[ALLFARMER]

Dr. W you may live in the same region as I but
the weather on Rycroft is not the weather La
Crete. In winter we are an average 10 degrees
colder than Edmonton and likely 5 degrees colder
than when your at. I do agree natural shelter can
save plenty of bedding. On windy days cattle will
choose bush over bedding. Land here is also
extreemly flat, not so for Rycroft. Land clearing
with heavy iron pencils....if not why has one
neighbor of mine bought 30 quarters to clear
another 26? The guy with 30 is an older well
established grain farmer who with his boys just
bought their third cat? Was it not you who
preached about no iron just buy your bales? It's
cheaper that way? I hear you now have a line of
haying equipment, bought under the context of
doing yours plus doing custom haying for others
to make it pencil? I know this because we have
a mutual friend. Enjoying your posts! As Conrad
Blacks father used to say Experience Is A Slow
Teacher.

[kato]

I would say that anyone who was in the cattle business when the BSE fiasco hit, and who is still in it now must be doing something right, no matter what that something is.

The management of an operation has to fit the landscape and local conditions, and we all know there are a lot of differences in those.