Join the "stop the CWB" Facebook page

[kato]

Good point, Randy. However, people seem to think they can have their cake and eat it too. It's all or nothing in this debate, which is not the way a lot of folks thought it would turn out. They seemed to think the CWB would stick around to be used when it suited them. It's not going to work that way.

I don't see how a corporation who has shareholders to cater to, and who has executives banking multi-million dollar bonuses will choose to return one more cent to the producer than it takes to get him to deliver the grain. They sure don't pay one more cent than it takes to get cattle delivered.

ADM, for instance
http://www.companypay.com/executive/compensation/archer-daniels-midland-co.asp?yr=2010

The company did 69 billion dollars in business in 2010, and made a profit of 1 billion, 700 million.

This is the lake a lot of people seem to want to jump in to. I guess if they think they can convince the multinationals to pay more, and that they have any negotiating muscle when dealing with them, then I wish them luck.

But they need to remember that once the Board is gone, it's not coming back. There's no saying "Ooops, we made a mistake."

[ASRG]

I'm sort of a free market kind of guy.
If Cargill or ADM want to screw me, and come up with some kind of super control thing..........no one holds a gun to my head and says...produce or die!
If I own the cows (or wheat) and Cargill or ADM or whoever says we'll give you "X" dollars for your product....then I have a decision to make......not the CWB, not the ABP, not the CCA.......me?
If it isn't enough, I quit....if it works I go for it! I don't need the government holding my hand and wiping my nose and making sure those bad boys treat me right!

[ag-boy]

"choice" ? "choose" ? " change " ?Meaningfull words used, never said get rid off CWB they have a place and if the grainproducers belief in it and support it as they say,be that mutch better for competition !
We all know different views on this subject it don,t take a whole page on Agi-Ville to uderstand the high cost off a little paper [quota] milk 3 to 4 million for 50 [cows] . 130 dollars per bird , witout that! be a better return for the producer and getting started for a young farmer who has no millions ! and it will lower the price to consumer!!!
reading on world news all over Europe
Quota on the way out ! on thing bad spelling dit , brought out many nice reply,s to this Topic , happy readings,sorry for my spelling turning close to 80 years and sill listing and learning

[Tucker]

wow, a bunch of cattle guys support the
wheat board. Big shocker there... Maybe
you should have been paying world prices
for barley the last 7 and a half decades
instead of the prices artificially
depressed by the CWB. How much would
cattle be worth if you had to pay
$6.00/bu for barley like they get in
Monatana? You guys are about to get your
security blankie ripped off you. Get
ready. No more dumping excellent quality
malt barley into a feedlot for next to
nothing because there's no quota or
price for malt from the wheat board.
It's about ****ing time too.

[Happytrails]

I'm with you tucker. And I have no idea why some cattle people who would never agree to single desk buyer for cattle are lamenting the end of the CWB monopoly. Regarding cheaper feed grains because of the CWB I am sure you are right. However there are many including me that think that cheap grain does not benefit the beef industry in the long run. HT

[per]

Tucker I think many of us free market types were just steering clear of this thread. If we have to be counted I am firmly on the free market side and have sold my entire grain crop out side of the CWB for 11 years now. I am looking forward to putting wheat and malt barley back in my rotation. As far as the cheap or expensive grain goes, there is plenty more room for grass based weight gaining. The cattle guys are resilient and will adapt. Life will go on and we will continue to make protein.

[grassfarmer]

ag-boy, good for you still being involved and on the internet at an age far beyond what many people do.
I simply don't buy your argument that if you do away with quota you will have better returns for the producer and lower prices for consumers. Compare CDN versus US dairy sectors and you will see that is not true. The US has gone the route of 1000 cow dairies and they still struggle to be viable whereas a 60-70 cow dairy in Canada is a big successful business contributing to the local community. As I said yesterday historically it is about a wash who has the dearest consumer milk prices between the two countries - the difference is the amount the processor takes in an unregulated environment.

Tucker you would notice that not one comment was made by a beef producer wishing the CWB remained so that grain prices would be low. The comments were all fearful that grain producers would be worse off without the board and I believe that to be true of the beliefs of the contributers. I never buy grain so I don't worry too much about buying it cheap - but if I did I'd sure be encouraging you guys to get rid of the board as I believe that will lead to lower, not higher prices.

HT, You are right we would never agree to a single buyer of cattle - that's why most of us have fought the NBs and Cargills through the last decade. I for one would certainly consider being involved with a single desk selling organisation for beef however. Look at the results achieved by the Northwest Cattlemans Alliance and tell me why it wouldn't be a good idea.

What bogus crap this "free market" ideology is. It implies some type of functioning marketplace or a level playing field where we are able to compete as equals. Was that the case through the BSE years Per? beef producers were forced to accept any bid they were offered by the 2 bidders while at the same time these same packers were lining their pockets with Government handouts. How could you call that a "free market"?

[kato]

We've lived the myth of the free market in the cattle world. But that's what it is, just a myth. We're given the impression that there is honest competition out there for our product, but the reality different. Just look at the difference between Canadian and American fat cattle for an example.

We've lived the myth of trickle down economics, and that, also, is just a myth. It ain't going to happen.

Maybe that's why some are reluctant to believe the statements that grain producers will be better off without the CWB. For us here in Manitoba, the fact that most of the noise to dump it is coming out of Alberta doesn't help.

I remember back in the day when we were told that the Crow Rate was evil, and must be gotten rid of or the world would come to an end. The Americans would put up countervails, and we wouldn't get the Free Trade Agreement. Guess what? We still had countervails, and lost a competitive edge in international grain sales, while the U.S. didn't drop a single subsidy. And the Free Trade Agreement? The biggest myth of all.

Yup. That worked well. For Alberta. Cheap feed, and lots of it! Which led to the invitation of "you know who" to set up shop and proceed to pound the Canadian packers into the ground. In Manitoba, freight on oats was higher than the value of the oats, and some guys actually got bills back when they shipped producer cars.

So, advice from our neighbours to the west about what's good for our business is taken with a grain of salt in this province, at least by those old enough to remember all this history.

[burnt]

Questioning the expectations of those who anticipate huge benefits from "free markets" could hardly be equated with being pro-CWB.

Rather it should be seen for what it is - an opinion based on the reality of experience. But I don't suppose something like raw experience was ever a serious impediment to idealism.

Trust me, after the honeymoon is over, it won't be long until some of these self-proclaimed "big boys" will find out just how big and powerful their new "partner" is.

Hey, no worries! One thing that cattle farmers know is that conventional "free markets" give everyone an equal chance in a race to the bottom.

[per]

Interesting group of responses. A guy who is a poster child for free markets with his own value chain doing the ultimate free market program arguing to keep the collective wheat and malt barley agency. A gal who argues for regulation that stops the free market from functioning as it should and could calls the free market a myth. Which I suppose as long as solutions like BSE testing for market access are roadblocked (during the time when it could have worked)it can hardly be called a true free market. Interesting though that no one is stopping anyone from participating anywhere in the chain. The a guy from Ontario who doesn't have the constraint of the CWB thinks the west should be happy with it. No one said things will always be rosy but in this case the keep the wheat board crowd ignore the fact that Canola, Feed Wheat and Barley, Rye, Oats and many other grains function outside of the Board with the option of dealing with the evil grain companies or brokers or direct. Every time the State gets involved we loose a little freedom, it's about time we take some back for a change. Of course freedom scares a few folks but my wife's grandfather who came home from Vimy believed it was worth it.

[burnt]

per, you are mistaken and I would think you would be big enough to admit it.

Nowhere did this guy from Ontario say that the west should keep the CWB.

What I am saying is that the expectations of instant and endless wealth when the board's monopoly ends will likely prove to be overblown.

If you check back over my posts of longer ago, you will find that I think that a dual marketing system is the best option.

The presence of a marketing board option will help keep the other buyers honest and the option of an open market will make the Board earn its keep.

But the idea that some have expressed - that of being big and efficient enough to actually have clout in the marketplace is laughable!

[per]

OK Burnt I was using a bit of a shotgun approach. I would love to see a dual market but the Board has written that option off. There will not be a utopia but what we have certainly is not either. As far as marketing goes though, I have successfully been selling rye into several different states for a premium to anything I have ever even heard of here. It won't be perfect but we will survive post CWB. Most of these folks you refer to have had similar off board experiences and although there will be bumps they will likely be better off post Board, or not.

[grassfarmer]

Not claiming or wishing to be a poster boy for anything Per - just happened to diversify into direct marketing with part of my production at a time when the commodity market was totally dysfunctional and unprofitable as a result.
If you are implying that I'm really a "free marketeer" but disingeniously wish to impose collective marketing on another segment of agriculture I'd come right back at you and suggest your "free market" views on the CWB directly contradict your involvement with the Canada Gold program where you seek to be part of a collective marketing arrangement.

[rkaiser]

Holy catfish batfolks.

I do not think that his is about collective anything as much as it is a debate about choice.

If the CWB is so confident in it's abilities to market, why not become a company that is still collective, but not forceful on those who don't want to buy in.

There is no comparison here to the beef industry. We do have a choice and simply choose more often than not to work with the two big boys. Our industry is not monopolised to the point that it seems that the two top quality grain products are.

Maybe the folks supporting the CWB in it's current state will turn out to be right in the long run, who knows. Is a dire prediction helping the situation "now".

As for the Beef Industry; Canada Gold is a choice, just as the new producer owned plant that we are working on at Balzac will be a choice.

We (the beef industry) are not regulated and controlled by government and I will never support that idea. AND we are not controlled by the two multinational packers in this country -- we (well not me) choose that role.

[per]

In my farming lifetime and that of my father we not had any other place to sell HRSW or Malt Barley other than to the CWB or with a CWB permit. As Randy points out the only other choice is to not grow those crops. Which by the way is the option I have used for 11 years now. Buying into a collective marketing system is not the same thing as being forced to use that system. Like it or not Gf you are an example of a good free market style Enterprise. You made a choice to get out of Commodity beef and successfully built your own chain. Reluctant or not that makes you a poster boy for free enterprise. Free market folks often work collaboratively in the same direction. No one is forced to participate.