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[grassfarmer]

Randy I think collective selling and choice are entertwined in this debate. You seem to have fallen for the myth that grain farmers have no choice where to sell which is not true. If Per wants to develop a niche market for a particular type of wheat or barley product and finds buyers for it in the US like he does for his rye there is no regulation stopping him from doing that. The CWB has systems that facilitate such transactions.
Another myth "Our industry is not monopolised to the point that it seems that the two top quality grain products are." There is far more concentration on the beef side compared to the many, many buyers of CWB grains. Central to this myth is the mistaken idea that the CWB is the only "buyer" of wheat and barley - it isn't its a marketing board working on behalf of producers. I would suggest you make improvements to it if this board isn't working to best advantage but to destroy it under the false idea that it is this evil single entity that is the only buyer of your grain rather than a marketing agency working on your behalf is surely throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
Back to the choice thing - in the fall of 2003 a feedlot owner was telling me he was taking 18c/lb for his fed cattle with a closed US border and being on the wrong side of one of the two major buyers - where were his choices? I would suggest he had a lot less choices than the grain guys do with the CWB so don't tell me they are the only ones who don't have a choice.

Per, I'm not out of the commodity beef business, i'm more in it than I am in the direct marketing business.
As a grain grower you are not "forced" to use a collective marketing system - you can grow crops not covered by CWB regulations, you can grow crops and sell them for feed or you can grow CWB governed crops and sell them where ever you like subject to the CWB regulations. Now financially that may not pencil out for you - sometimes I'd like to sell fat cattle at US prices but that doesnt mean I'm going to get them - I'm just making the point that products and prices are regulated economically as well as by rules and for that reason "choice" applies not only in a regulated environment but in a "free market" environment.

[grassfarmer]

Randy I think collective selling and choice are entertwined in this debate. You seem to have fallen for the myth that grain farmers have no choice where to sell which is not true. If Per wants to develop a niche market for a particular type of wheat or barley product and finds buyers for it in the US like he does for his rye there is no regulation stopping him from doing that. The CWB has systems that facilitate such transactions.
Another myth "Our industry is not monopolised to the point that it seems that the two top quality grain products are." There is far more concentration on the beef side compared to the many, many buyers of CWB grains. Central to this myth is the mistaken idea that the CWB is the only "buyer" of wheat and barley - it isn't its a marketing board working on behalf of producers. I would suggest you make improvements to it if this board isn't working to best advantage but to destroy it under the false idea that it is this evil single entity that is the only buyer of your grain rather than a marketing agency working on your behalf is surely throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
Back to the choice thing - in the fall of 2003 a feedlot owner was telling me he was taking 18c/lb for his fed cattle with a closed US border and being on the wrong side of one of the two major buyers - where were his choices? I would suggest he had a lot less choices than the grain guys do with the CWB so don't tell me they are the only ones who don't have a choice.

Per, I'm not out of the commodity beef business, i'm more in it than I am in the direct marketing business.
As a grain grower you are not "forced" to use a collective marketing system - you can grow crops not covered by CWB regulations, you can grow crops and sell them for feed or you can grow CWB governed crops and sell them where ever you like subject to the CWB regulations. Now financially that may not pencil out for you - sometimes I'd like to sell fat cattle at US prices but that doesnt mean I'm going to get them - I'm just making the point that products and prices are regulated economically as well as by rules and for that reason "choice" applies not only in a regulated environment but in a "free market" environment.

[grassfarmer]

Oops, seem to have hit resend instead of refresh, sorry.

[smcgrath76]

I have often thought the easiest
solution to the CWB debate is to have
producers "opt out" or sign a 3 year
agreement with the board. If you sign
on, the CWB can then work out the pool
for the next 3 years. If you opt out,
then too bad for you, you will have the
option to opt in after a reasonable
hiatus.
Allows freedom of choice for the farmer,
marketing predictability for the board,
and accountability for everyone.
We don't use grain on our operation, so
the price of grain largely affects only
the price of calves (not my direct
inputs), but there is a lot of feed
barley traded outside of the board
because of price and payment terms. It
will be an interesting next few years.
I am not a fan of polarization as I
think most workable solutions are in the
grey area in between the extremes.

[Happytrails]

In theory, COMMUNISM WORKS. Same could be said for CWB. Seems to have fooled GF. How so many buy the notion that an agency with no assets except a captive supply of grain can add value for growers blows me away. To get that grain to buyers the CWB bureaucrats have to make deals with the elevator companies, railways, and terminals. All of them know that they've got the power and can write their own deals. Without the CWB monopoly they will have to compete with each other. Duh??

[grassfarmer]

So is it only communism that doesn't work HT? How well is capitalism working at the moment? In the US, Greece, Italy with their current financial crisis?
Like a lot of Albertans it seems you are stuck in a McCarthyite mindset - the world has moved on - that was 50 years ago.
Have you ever been to a communist country HT? I have and my father has too - he served in the army during the communist insurgency in Malaya. So lets hear your experience that makes you an expert on the flaws of communism.

[riders2010]

Interesting some of the most intuitive comments about the cwb have come from this cattle forum.

It really is quite simple, in the end when looking at the world price offered for wheat and what farmers are getting through the cwb, the value of the added expense in administration etc. simply was not apparent when considering all the hastle to get your money. Delivery periods were and are terrible. If the board was getting a premium for us they had a very poor way of showing clearly examples of this.

On the other side of the coin those that are saying there is going to be this big boom for farmers in terms of wheat and barley prices, that is not gonna happen either. The cwb supporters are right in that the multinationals will see to it that they get every nickel of the pie in terms of grain price, that is their job. The cwb as it was working was not addressing the problem of getting more money for us from the value chain. So at least now we have the choice of marketing where and when we want, and know better how much and when we can get our money.

I understand that some of the cwbers are using this as a stand against the multinationals taking too much out of the price we recieve. The idea that we are not getting enough price for what we grow is correct, and I support that part of their view, but the cwb has shown that as it is, it is not the tool that will correct this, and really only adds admin costs and hastle.

The conservatives are not doing this for farmers, they are doing this for the businesses up the value line to have easier access to our grain. That is good for local growers saving some freight and the admin cost of the former cwb but that will be it for benefit farmers. Yes some local jobs at the pasta plant etc.

The cwb issue is emberrassing that it has taken this long and this much division amongst us farmers to get to this point. To me it was a deliberate plan by both the leaders of the cwb and the conservative gov to have this hatred develop to further and back their own agendas. Us farmers are just pawns for both sides the ironic part is neither the gov or the cwb leaders are doing this for us but rather their own interests.

The cwb issue has been a smoke screen, 2 elections federal and provincial and the real problems us farmers are facing have not been discussed at all.

When will us farmers realize that we have a common interest and that it is the goal of those up the chain to have us seperated so they can pick or product cheaper?

[rkaiser]

From someone on the outside with not a lot of in depth knowledge and maybe only general comments to offer; I would like to say thanks to riders2010 for the enlightening post.

[Happytrails]

I second that. HT

[kato]

Third it.

The ball has been dropped in so many places, it's hard to count. I think history will look back and conclude that it didn't have to happen, and things could have been handled much better than they have been.

For one thing, those at the CWB did not take the initiative to explain themselves, their operations, and their results, to the wheat producers. When people aren't told what's going on, they will assume the worst.

Also, when others are opposed, they will push all the buttons they can to make sure everyone assumes the worst, so they can fulfill their own agendas.

However, that being said, at least with the CWB, if someone really really wanted it to work better for farmers, they had the option to run for director, and those who did run deserve to be commended for it.

If someone really really wants Cargill to work better for farmers, they're SOL.

I agree that this whole debate has been yet another prime example of the "divide and conquer" strategy in motion. It's all to familiar, and it just keeps on working.

When will we wake up and smell the coffee? What's it going to take?

[Happytrails]

Not to make too fine a point but it doesn't surprise me that you have been to a communist country GF. But I am wondering why you didn't stay there??

[grassfarmer]

Nothing wrong with travelling in my book HT - it broadens the mind. Gives some perspective that you don't get by living in Alberta all your life. Truth is most of you guys throwing about the communist socialist/marxist tags in relation to the CWB or the NFU don't have a clue what you are talking about, not a clue.
p.s. you'd better get after Randy now seeing as how he's going to be doing business with communists - you do know that China is a communist country don't you? They seem to be quite successful at global trade - how could that be? they're communist and we all know communists can't be successful in business. Any ideas HT?

[rkaiser]

They say the sign at the Beijing airport says "One country - Two systems". Everything is clean cause everything now has value. I'll let ya know when I get back.

Went to Cuba once and was impressed. Poor people still had decent clothes and did not beg for money, just tried to sell you cigars. Food was awesome and all organic.

Still like that freedom thing though...

The Chairman of ABP once called us socialists at an AGM. At the time, Cargill had just recieved their cheque from the governmnet to support all of their losses due to BSE>>>>LOL

All about balance and it always makes it's way back to the middle. Remember the Roman Empire... Kinda looked like the Bush Glory era in the good old USA.
Hail George but what the hell is Hu Jintao up to....

[grassfarmer]

I don't know what he's up to Randy - I was surprised his immigration department issued you a visa too lol

[per]

You did get a visa didn't you Randy?