SUPPLY MAGEGEMENT

[kato]

One thing that I can't help but think about is the difference in size between American and Canadian dairy farms. Down there, they truly have factory dairy farms, and the smaller operations are under pressure to expand to the factory size.

We see that with size, in a feedlot for example, comes the pressures of an intensive cattle population, which brings along with it the stresses on the animals, and all that goes with it. In a large dairy, I don't see how it would be different, except that when milk is being produced, sanitation and disease control is an absolute necessity.

What are the odds that some antibiotic gets into the milk tank when you're milking hundreds of cows? Or that everything is spotless, and the bacteria count is low, when the equipment never gets shut down between milkings?

I know the consequences for any Canadian dairy farmer who lets milk from a treated cow get into the tank are pretty expensive. With the American system, I'm not sure I trust that they even inspect it.

I'd far rather get my milk from a Canadian dairy that is operating under the strict guidelines we have here. If supply management is what it takes to keep the dairy farms up to the high standards they are now, then so be it.

[grassfarmer]

Two bits about your bits Randy:
"Does supply management really work?" Yes - unequivocally. Thus they don't need to create a "niche" market to get an enhanced return - they all get niche price.

"Don't know of many milk, chicken or even pork producers anymore who have not "bought" in to the industry with dollars from either outside the country and or outside the industry"
What about the Hutterites?
Quote: "By 1997, Alberta's 151 colonies owned 1.5 million acres of land (1% of the total farmland), but produced one third of the dairy products, eggs, and hogs in Alberta and had a virtual monopoly on down feathers. 10% of the country's milk supply came from Hutterite farms."

[rkaiser]

I guess I am just an old guy GF and kato. i have an aunty who's knees are bowed from packing pails to the milk tank in the 60's and 70's. All of these little dairy farms that did make a nice living for the families that ran them were gobbled up by European immigrants with money to spend on fancy new barns and equipment while scooping quota from all the little dairy's that I remember as a kid.

I know what you are saying about scale kato, but it is all in perspective.

Before the days that I am speaking of almost every farm had a few milk cows and separated cream to make some extra bucks.

When I ask if it works GF, I am talking about working for the family farm atmosphere or for a few farms -- that may become fewer I admit.

As for the safety issue --- shit Pallet, it ain't supply management that's doing it. It is consciousness -- and yes it does still exist; and I think more so in family farm situations.

Dropping supply management will open the flood gates just like opening a new walmart in town.

I still stand my ground on choice rather than control. Walmart shoppers can still choose and so can Canadian milk, chicken or pig shoppers.

All we can do is educate them and do our best to offer them a healthy choice.

[Happytrails]

There is no doubt we have challenges living next to the greatest agriculture producer in the world. But we seem to have generally been fairly successful in exporting our production to the U.S. And the opposite is also true.
The question comes down to whether we should wall ourselves off or negotiate fair trade arrangements. HT

[cpallett]

The average age for a Canadian beef producer is 58. The average age for a Canadian dairy producer is 47.

That ought to tell you something.

In the long run beef production in Canada, at least on the family farm, does not appear to be sustainable. Fewer and fewer generations and newcomers are willing to take on a way of life that requires the support of a full-time off-farm job.

Supply management does appear to have accomplished at least one thing; the long-term viability of the family dairy farm in Canada.

As for the Hutterites (and the Mennonites), they are living examples of the success that hard work combined with group co-operation can bring to any agricultural enterprise.

Now if we could only get everybody else to pull together, there are no limits to what could be accomplished.

[grassfarmer]

HT what makes the US the "greatest agriculture producer in the world" - speed thay have been able to degrade their soils? highest yields? highest overall volumes?

Good points Cameron, succession is not as big a problem in the dairy because there is money to be made and that attracts the kids to stay.

Good point also on the Hutterites and Mennonites - their success through group co-operation is inspiring. Seems anyone trying to promote that type of thing in Alberta is deemed a communist though.

[kato]

Randy, I remember spending my summer holidays washing one of those kitchen cream separators. Arghh... one million stainless steel cones all piled up, and all needing to be washed separately.

At least it seemed like a million.. LOL

[littledoggie]

Average age for beef producers - 58
Average age for dairy producers - 47
It won't be long now before the big guns get total control. Sorry Randy, I don't buy into your "niche market" as being the answer, because all it will take is a few more regulations that limit your upside and the little guy has gone the way of the dodo. Big corporations can handle excessive regulation, while the little guy can't.
cpallett - "Now if we could only get everybody else to pull together, there are no limits to what could be accomplished." I couldn't agree more, but alas, there are too many big ego's and too much greed for these types to see past the end of their noses. There is strength in numbers, but the multi-nationals are very clever in creating dissension in the ranks so we don't get together and gather some power.
The Hutterites have some things right, but they are also willing to work for very little. They are really self-sufficient and don't buy into modern society's "gotta have this and gotta have that". And many hands make light work. The modern family farm has none of these attributes.

[Happytrails]

To GF regarding our southern neighbors being the greatest agriculture producer in the world. Please check out "nationmaster.com" and see for yourself. Actually China is ahead in wheat and meat production but only the US has corn to burn. HT

[smcgrath76]

Interesting, but the US doesn't rank
first in cereal production and is well
down the list in value added. It is
also highest in obesity and some other
factors that are directly influenced by
the food supply. It ranks nearly 3
years behind Canada in life expectancy.
But it does grow a lot of corn.
It appears many of the fastest rates of
growth are in the middle east (although
they certainly are starting smaller in
many cases). I think this relates to
whether we view things through a
production lens or not.

[grassfarmer]

Little Doggie, I think the modern family farm can have the attributes you mention of the Hutterites. The only one that is difficult is the "many hands make light work"
Most family farms do work for very little, many are as self-sufficient as hutterite colonies - maybe not in what we grow in the garden or make in the way of furniture but I know I'm a way less dependent on purchased fertiliser, spray and machinery than the colonies are and these are bigger ticket items. We can choose whether we want to partake in modern consumer "gotta haves" - I generally don't.

Yep, HT that's impressive - the US is the #1 importer of bananas and #1 exporter of cotton. But on the important stuff - have three times as much arable land as Canada but use 91 times as much fertiliser. Greatest Ag producer in the world indeed!

[Happytrails]

Littledoggie, I'm with you on the regulatory burden falling harder on cow-calf producers. The big players who number their cattle in the thousands have to get replacements from somewhere. They are not going to raise their own so they should have an interest in keeping us in business.

We have had a near miss with the traceability nonsense and no doubt it has already caused some to exit the industry. Feedlots don't share our fear of getting strangled by the red tape so we are in that fight alone. We have to keep reminding them that without us they are gone.

PS Was at a calf auction today and saw lots of cattlepeople that couldn't stop grinning. Good to see.

[burnt]

kato - a million s.s. cones? You must have had one of the small ones!