Free Riding Lowers Market Returns 5-20%

[ASRG]

Would that be Rick Smith?

[forage]

Yes , he is the executive director of ABP and R.Kaiser he did state he was not a "elected" offical but he is a paid puppet

[farmers_son]

Please, I have no connection to ABP. I am here because I see a real need for ordinary producers to speak up for our industry. That is all. When Minister Groeneveld made the check offs (beef, pork, lamb, potatoes) refundable it impacted those commissions ability to further their respective industries interests. That should have concerned everyone and I know for certain it concerns me.

GaryE. Thanks for the support. Best be careful or they will accuse you of being someone you are not.

Per: That is before my time. I am sure the original mandate has expanded. Back in the day the Canadian cattle industry barely produced enough for domestic demand. Now Canada is one of the worlds largest exporters of grain fed beef. Back in the day animal rights and anti meat lobbies were non existent. Now they are a well financed and influential force to be reckoned with. It is always nice to recall the good old days but we do live in the here and now. As such we have to deal with and find solutions to today issues. That includes having the money to defend and promote our industry.

Happytrails. Yes it is cheaper for those that ask for refunds. Really, was $3 per head so expensive? Seriously? If there is regret today about the check off then lets have a referendum on it. I can point out in this thread the need for a non refundable check off and certainly others in this thread will point out the disadvantages of it but at some point shouldn’t the producers decide on the future of their industry? It is still the producers industry. Recall the producers had a referendum on the check off some years ago and supported it. Then the government went against the majority of producers (yes it was a narrow majority) and took away needed industry funding. That was a wrong that needs to be made right. That should have been the producer’s decision.

Smcgrath17. “The challenge of democracy is that the apathy of the many is often trumped by the tyranny of the few.” The reality is when it comes to getting things done it often falls to the few. Even it is only a local hall project a committee gets formed to get it done. Is that a tyranny or is it leadership? I guess it is a glass half full or empty kind of thing. Really it is democracy and unless you have lived in a country with real tyranny then I doubt if any of us can appreciate what tyranny is. We take our democratic institutions for granted quite often.

Let’s face it. Government could do everything our provincial cattle organizations do for us and we would not have to pay any check off. Take ALMA for instance. ALMA is a technocracy made up of government appointees some of whom are well known for only furthering their own interests. No producer elected those people. But they are making decisions that affect producers directly. ALMA could do it all and would do it all for free.

Or alternatively, producers take charge of their industry through democratic elections and chart their own path. However this course means producers have to fund the effort. The choice is clear. If producers are not willing to fund their industry government has already indicated its eagerness to take over. The timing of the government mandate to make the check off refundable and the startup of ALMA was not coincidental. Government knows the refundable check off will weaken our ability to defend and promote our own industry.

I think it is up to us. It should be our decision. Let’s make it our decision through a referendum on a non refundable $3 per head check off. Let send a message to Government and ALMA that we want to be in charge of our own industry.

[smcgrath76]

FS - What I intended to point out with
my comment was not that the leaders of
ABP are tyrannical. Rather that the
problem is no one is engaged unless they
have a major problem. The turnout at
ABP meetings is a lot better when
everyone is mad or scared or someone has
an axe to grind. ABP is not very sexy
when you are talking about proactive
problem avoidance or problem solving
before the emergency.
To be fair I think the people that
contribute time and effort to ABP (or
other organizations) should be
applauded, rather than accosted, and I
have great respect for the staff of the
organization.
I do however think that the structure of
ABP is ineffective, but that may say as
much about the membership as the
leadership. I also think that the
organization needs to take a serious
look at who and how it is serving and
what services it is offering. ABP tends
to have a different viewpoint of the
industry than I do on many issues, and
the question of status quo and
protecting equity/position vs. growth
and innovation is one that I don't feel
is being very well addressed.
To be completely honest I am not sure
that without the US next door our beef
would really be in great demand, unless
someone can explain to me why it is such
a great product and what we have done to
back up that claim. That is the area I
think we need to be working on.

[ASRG]

I think my question remains? Is MGMT really Rick Smith? Forage says "yes"....is he right?

[Happytrails]

Re: referendum. The refundable checkoff is an ongoing referendum. HT

[grassfarmer]

HAHAHAHA
I knew you'd trip up using the three log in names
rsomer/farmers_son/MGMT.
C'mon ASRG you are slow on the uptake today!!
I knew it was farmers_son from the start, it's a one
pony show.

[farmers_son]

Oh, come on. Get real and get over it. I am accused of being Mr. ABP (am not). I am accused of being MGMT because I had not posted to this thread (I was away on holidays) or else MGMT is Rich Smith. Like how do I defend against that? Am I supposed to sign my name to every post? Or include a photograph? Actually the technology would allow for that but that is not going to happen. You would not believe the picture was of me anyway.

I understand you do not share my point of view on a lot of things. You may be surprised to know I respect your viewpoint. You express yourself well and write a killer letter to the editor. I, perhaps naively, believe it is what is said that counts and not who says it. I have never felt the need to associate myself with this or that organization to give my posts validity. Either what I say makes sense or it does not. It should not matter if the post is made by a woman or a man, young or old, rich or poor, president of an organization or someone with 5 head. At least that is how I look at it.

And my words are always my own and not representative of any organization whatsoever.

[grassfarmer]

The give away was when you posted for the first time on
this thread replying to a whole host of people's
comments that had been directed to MGMT.
Oops. Can't put that genie back in the bottle.

I've known your identity for most of the decade that you
have posted on here and I admire your knowledge and
opinions too - one of the best brains in Alberta
agriculture. You just lose credibility in my eyes when you
feel the need to use multiple handles and claim not to
belong to ABP when you have in fact been a delegate and
on the board of directors for most of the last decade.
I'm not revealing your identity on here as I believe it's
everyones right to retain anonymity and hope everyone
else will respect that too.

[rkaiser]

First off, how can anyone take someone who plays games like this on the Internet seriously.

It's a little weird for one thing and does not bode well for the so called democratic ABP/CCA organisation that you support farmers_son.

I think that the Rich Smith guess got you scared old buddy. Not sure if you are still a delegate or not, but if Rich is checking in or loric spills the beans on you, you might be looking for a different cushy job rather than your ABP freeloader cheque.

Your opinion is obviously backed by lots of words and personal perception and I too have said in the past that your intelligence is likely wasted supporting the freeloader organisation called ABP/CCA

The premise of this whole thread is that you personally believe (if you are not part of ABP/CCA LOL) that this group has actually made a difference in government to government negotiations on trade issues. I personally don't believe they have made any difference and have pissed away millions of check off dollars flying around blowing smoke up the asses of politicians who could give a rats as about anything ABP or CCA says.


You suggest the following---

"I think it is up to "us". It should be our decision. Let’s make it our decision through a referendum on a non refundable $3 per head check off. Let send a message to Government and ALMA that we want to be in charge of our own industry."

I actually like part of this statement, however the current so called democratic organisation that you think is "us" is not the vehicle.

Find and organisation that will use the checkoff to actually do something proactive for the industry and I would throw 3 bucks at it as well.