Hijack Property Rights meetings

[Kathy]

Thought I'd put this in a new smaller thread.

Why not have a vote at the beginning of these meetings to determine how the "public meeting on property rights" will be conducted? If the majority vote to have a wide-open public forum with everyone participating in the same discussion - than so be it!

If the majority want to sit at tables with a facilitator, so be it!

I wish I could have been in Grand Prairie for their meeting, it sounds like these folks really know how to stand up for themselves, bravo!

[ASRG]

Kathy: You guys can run the meeting however you want, but the main thing is you must get the people out?
Our group made a major push to involve people at Olds and that paid off pretty good? We made sure we had someone in every group to refute erroneous information. Believe me the government has "paid friends" posing as common folk, circulating within these groups!
In the group I was in, there was such a person who tried to steer the conversation away from the truth at every opportunity!
Our group realized very early that this so-called "listening tour" was nothing but a pre-election scam. We decided instead of trying to influence the politicians on the error of their ways.......our job was to help people understand just what a bunch of skunks we had in government and to unite the people for a real push forward on property rights?
I don't think we can really change this governments mind, but if we can get rural people to come together, we might be able to force change on the government....or change horses?

[Kathy]

a quote from the UN Conference on Human Settlements in 1976 -

"Land...cannot be treated as an ordinary asset, controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures and inefficiencies of the market. Private land ownership is also a principal instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth and therefore contributes to social injustice; if unchecked, it may become a major obstacle in the planning and implementation of development schemes. The provision of decent dwellings and healthy conditions for the people can only be achieved if land is used in the interests of society as a whole. Public control of land use is therefore indispensable...."

178 Nations are signatory to this policy for future development, including Canada.

The abject transfer of wealth (granted by private property rights) is underway and these Alberta Bills are a direct result of bureacratic agendas to keep "the people" poor and therefore subservient and dependent upon "government".

Nothing has changed, nothing.... since the dark ages, since the Roman Empire, since the tyranny of England over Scotland and Ireland, etc. NOTHING.

A small group of elite, who think themselves superior to the masses, wants to rule over us, steal our natural resources for their own profit, and live their own lives in decadence; while the poor masses slave away, thankful for the crumbs handed down to them by their Lords.

"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep, to slaughter."
- George Washington

"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."
- George Orwell

"Freedom is never dear at any price. It is the breath of life. What would a man not pay for living?"
- Mohandas Gandhi

"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either."
- Benjamin Franklin

[forage]

Hope someone from out in the east country post a update for their meetings with the Task FArce

[Kathy]

The chairs were all set up for four groups,although they went with 3 upstairs and one downstairs. Would have been a very hard time to try and change the format. Good turnout considering the deep cold. Heard one facilitator state that the groups from Brooks and Hanna were "the most direct".

Lots of Ministers in attendance, but not the local MLA Jack Haydin. Wondered if the "local" MLAs are being kept from their own district meetings???

MLAs took off from the airport after the show, in a twin prop plane for Edmonton? Medicine Hat?? Facilitators stayed overnight in Hanna.

Task Force cut the meeting short, advertised it was to go to 930pm but discussion was cut off and the review done before 9pm.

The****utic to get the message out to these people about how they are playing with fire and we are not going to take any more abuse.

Heard about a couple ranchers who have had their public land leases cancelled (no names given) but would like to see some write ups by these individuals to help explain what happened and how? Were their leases renewable? Were they cancelled before the end of the lease, at the end of the lease - or "not renewable" in the contract - just custom that they were renewed? Did the government use the new Land Stewardship Act to "rescind" their leases??

One MLA was seen shaking his head in agreement, when I stated that the Ministers' Offices are illegally using tax payer money to make law and introduce it to the legislature.... since the Ministers jobs are to enforce existing law - not create new law. All laws coming to the legislature should be private members bills - only.

Didn't like the format of these meetings. Difficulting in hearing each other talk, was a problem.

After meeting chats with folks, demonstrated real awareness of the problems we are facing. Except a few Ministers were still trying to justify the bills with individual circumstances that were easily dealt with under the old laws...

The message was clear, it was uniform and I think it was very much in syc with the other meetings across the province. Now we must wait to see what is interpretted out of our conversations with the Task Force Report. I suggest you send in a letter to re-enforce your comments, so they are less easily ignored.

Maybe 100 public members, and close to 30 government reps and facilitators.

[ASRG]

Thanks for updating everyone Kathy. To bad the weather turned so tough for the last few meetings.
There is still time to get your submissions in. We sent in the ASRG one today. It can be viewed at www.albertasurfacerights.com. You can send a submission to propertyrights@gov.ab.ca

[forage]

ASRG read your submission on your site , to bad everyone cann't put that much energy into a submission , gives the reader a good template.
Thanks Kathy for the feedback. The government has passed these inept bills and the very same MLAs, and the Ag and Environment Ministers that are running the show all voted in favor at the Legisature . No suprize Jack Hayden was hiding behind a sage bush somewhere, as bill 19 was his baby.

[smcgrath76]

My meager submission...

I have taken the time to download and read these bills and have a variety of concerns that have changed very little
from their initial passage.
I do not appreciate that the land under my feet is/has been taken away by rule of legislation (not law) with no
opportunity for recompense or recourse through any channel including legal. I do not appreciate that “an order in
council” can change the livelihood and lives of millions of Albertans. I do not appreciate the message of “trust
me” we won’t use the powers in these bills as a threat to electing a different government that may.
While I do appreciate that Alberta is and will continue to grow and that we need stewardship planning, I do not
believe that strong arm tactics under the guise of watershed or provincial growth strategies qualifies as
stewardship. The track record of the AB government to date has been to consistently sell out to the lowest common
denominator and in many cases aid in the getaway.
At this point I believe the government has been extremely lucky that more of the urban population is relatively
unaware of the impacts that Bills 19, 36, 50 and 24 can have on them as well.

Problems are too significant to narrow down, however this scenario should outline the potential of these bills...

The president of an energy company is a significant member of the party in power.
They want to construct a utility so the province under an Order in Council freezes land of a land owner (Bill 19) so
in future they can sequester the land from the landowners with limited compensation (possibly in an eco sensitive
area).
A power line is built enabling the company to access a major market, but the project is largely funded by Alberta’s
taxpayers (Bill 50), who also face significant increases to their power costs to pay for the line.
At the same time the energy company to gain good press uses government money to put pressurized CO2 underground into
pore space (Bill 24) formerly owned by the landowner under the last 1000 years of common law (who does not own the
pore space anymore so doesn’t need to be paid). This damages their water source, but that is too damn bad, and
their again is no legal recourse. Because the president of the company is buddies with the minister, and they are
having trouble accessing the landowners land to pump CO2 underground they rescind the landowner’s surface rights
using Bill 36.

Quite frankly I hesitate to comment due to the fact that I have so little trust of the current government and their
rule by intimidation and doctrine. What I would really like to comment should not be put into print by civilized
people. I believe that the only solution to the predicament the government has placed itself in is to repeal these
bills. The next option will be exercised in the polling booths by as many Albertans as can be made to hear about
these decisions prior to the next election.

You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out this is not good for Albertans. I am not a lawyer, but I do
know how to read and I have a history of thinking, and what I read makes me think that the government doesn’t trust
its’ own electorate to make intelligent choices. Apparently at this point the most intelligent choice we can make
is to vote for someone else.

[ASRG]

We tried to keep our submission relatively simple. We could have written a book on all the things wrong with Bill 36 and Bill 50!
We felt our submission was probably a waste of time....likely thrown in the garbage can anyway!
The message we are constantly trying to get out is: All four of these bills are bad legislation. We need a government that will work for us.....the landowners and citizens of this province......not a bunch of multi national corporations!
We fully recognize the importance of the O & G industry....we just believe the government should recognize that we own the land they need to operate on and we deserve the right to not have our property destroyed, and we deserve a fair share of the money being extracted.

[forage]

To bad ever one that made a submission won't forward a copy to a common address were the landowners could read each others and then make a summary like the task farce is doing. I am sure there would be a dramatic different message.
GRATH excellant post. I agree with you 100% . I submitted a short and sweet one REPEAL all four bills or I will do it when I make my X