Follow along folks

[smcgrath76]

This thread is turning lots of ways...
A few thoughts...
There are as many millionaires in China
as there are Canadians (more by now). I
think this is pretty basically an
attractive market. They also have a
history of eating all parts of the
animal. One real challenge here (that
is probably another thread) is that I am
not sure we have the greatest beef in
the world or the structures to build it.
Efforts like yours RK and feedback
structures are a big part of the
solution to that.
Conventional marketing wisdom is still
useful, however a lot of it involves
manipulation of inventory numbers and
rolling inventories around and doesn't
always work for cow/calf enterprises.
Improvement of beef cattle genetics is a
long term project that requires a stable
cow base.
Temple Grandin is very good,
particularly at developing systems for
places where people may lack handling
skill and still have to handle cattle
(eg: processors, feedlots, etc.) We
don't follow all of her
philosophies/practices around here but
she has done a lot for enabling animal
welfare.

[grassfarmer]

"By the way --- do you think that the Chinese are even close to being as accepting as Hong Kong when it comes to American beef.... LOL"

What do you mean by that comment RK? Are you implying China and HK have different beef importing standards?

[gaucho]

Randy hats off to you for taking the initiative to go to China and Hong Kong.... that said there is a big difference between making market contacts and getting the sale done. We ship and sell in the HK market and there is a finite limit as to what they will take and better yet pay...HK also just buys mostly middles (sweet cuts)... No hips, no trim and hardly any chucks... AS far as China we have given quotes on cattle pack prices (the entire carcass)to China... The number one question that comes back "is this the best price can we get any cheaper and why are you more than such and such". Sure there might be some buyers over there to pay premiums, but trust me it takes much more than just killing and shipping the beef.... the vast majority is sold on the cheap and cheerful. If there was so much money to be made in that market don't you think Cargill would work hard at swinging beef in that direction rather than the US.. Finally the $35 / lb price.... have you ever been in a whole Foods... some of these retailers are putting 70 points on product... Sorry don't quite buy the streets being paved with gold.

[rkaiser]

Okay Christoph, you're right. We will stop any further dealings with the Chinese....LOL

I won't even respond to the Cargill selling to China joke, other than to respond to grassfarmer. Hong Kong has a very differnet culture than China who's people are not all that fond of American multinational tactics other than to sell them cheap walmart like products. Canada has a distinct advantage in China if we don't ride the coat tails of Uncle Sam or the Uncle Sam influenced former CBEF organisation.

How dumb do we think these people over there are?

As for marketing, depending on the four importers on the CBEF list, or maybe a few more that they picked up at the odd trade show in Hong Kong and then making a few phone calls is not really what I call due diligence.

The streets are not paved with gold Chistoph but a vertically integrated value chain with contacts with kingpins in China who serve their best fish heads, turtle, and eel at the round table after a police escort to the best restaurant in a city of 7 million might just work. When the host orders up the concrete for a new airport in the middle of toasting his new Canadian friends with a shot of private stock "bijou" (sp), I think there is some potential to sell more than a few middle cuts to your limited market of 1.6 bilion people. LOL

Maybe you could give me some sound advice and training on how to sell beef the next time we get together Christoph. LOL

And by the way, hats off to you as well for the work you are doing. I honestly wish you nothing but the best and see little screwed up with what you are doing. I think that more than just old Kaiser is getting used to your "know everything about everything" attitude and how dumb everyone in the industry is in your eyes.

By the way, we will be calling your sales guy even more often for more product as we are moving ahead faster than our supply of specific primal cuts until our plant gets going. Yer welcome....LOL

[gaucho]

Randy I do not know why you get so uptight when I mention some of our experiences.... Do you have an inferiority complex when someone challenges what you say or adds a different perspective? Hey go ahead hats off to you but it gets a little tiring hearing how easy it will be and that the rest of the world is a bunch of dumb x$1X's that have no clue what they are doing, even though they are selling beef and that the poor cattlemen is constantly getting royally screwed. This last week 5 weight cattle bumped past $2 / lb.... sorry but if you are a producer with good cost of production there is some good margin in there. When the chips are down everyone will want to be in a branded program but when the prices are where they are now 90% will be glad to take the money and avoid the risk of an upstart. Randy we sell beef every day of the week and yes we have been able to raise prices, however balancing the carcass is a tough game as an upstart and even tough for established sellers. Smart word of advice Randy...much of what I do and talk about I have learned from someone else or by listening to some wise people.... being dismissive of them would have made me look like a fool

[rkaiser]

Once again --- thank you wise one...LOL... Talk about getting up tight...

Funny how these new found profits in the beef business have people in the commodity game telling the producer just how lucky he is these days... If I could LOL louder, I would. Keep running down your suppliers by saying that they are nothing but a bunch of greedy bastards who wil bail on you for a dime and see how far you get in this game Buddy Boy.

The rest of the world are not dumb asses Christoph; in fact it is quite the opposite. Most of them see through the facade of American Multinationals and so called value chains with a bit of a twist on these top heavy organisations. All your worldly experiecne and you have stil not figured out this North American Captive supply issue yet man? Whatsupwiththat?

Sorry I can not share all of the details of what we are doing Chris, you might be able to learn something as well.

All I know about the beef marketing game is that is is not unlike selling any other product. You can play the commodity game and sell on price or make a little twist, add a story about how much you care about the producer LOL, and the consumer, and still sell on price. Or you can build relationships with consumers and those who have influence with consumers and sell a branded program that does not look much like the commodity at all.

Might take a little more work and a little more time; and actually listening to more than the voice inside your head Christoph, but it is doable.

Keep givin er man, there is lots of room out there for you and it will do you no good to try to keep this lobster in the pot with your doubts or this illness that pops up in you any more.

Still sick of me my friend? LOL

[per]

I think the pair of you will make interesting members on a panel of experts or as tag team guest speakers. Plenty of good information, sparks and entertainment. What are you doing in July?

[rkaiser]

I'm Ready... How about you Chritoph old Buddy..

[grassfarmer]

Don't want to squash anyones dreams or ambitions
but 2012 is different to 2003/4/5. The commodity
sector has changed dramatically in that time and we
can't ignore that reality. In our own retailing
business the margin we make over commodity price
has shrunk from over $400 an animal to more like
$200 an animal. We can't up the end price too much
or demand suffers. This is a reality that will have to
be faced by any start up plant, its a price squeeze
that will make success this time around many times
more difficult than it was the last time.
I'm sticking with my beef retailing business for now
because I know it works and I have a fair degree of
control over all the elements. To invest in a
"producer plant" at this stage holds no appeal for
me personally.
By the time it's all said and done, the plant is paid
for, bank interest is paid, staff and management are
hired and paid, marketers are paid, product is
shipped half way around the world to wholesalers
and retailers who still want their cut the cow/calf
guy whose place the calf was born on will still be
just a commodity player with very little control over
their destiny. The premium that a participant could
expect from such a marketing venture would be
pretty small per animal in my opinion. It looks to me
like recreating the commodity system over again.

[gaucho]

Well said GF...that said I will gladly
debate Randy, however I don't know what
the outcome is suppose to bring besides
entertainment... that said I would much
rather spend my time entertaining my
kids camping in July than spending time
agreeing to disagree. Randy get your
plant and investors going.... get her
done and I will be the the 1st to congratulate you for pulling the
impossible of. Sorry but my summers are
precious and I try not to wander too far
from the ranch.

[per]

Not after a debate just an interesting conversation. Not to worry, your family trumps my entertainment for sure. My wish is for both of you to be highly successful both at home and abroad. It will be good for our industry.