So what makes us so good...

[smcgrath76]

Commentary from friends, the debate on
here and the latest news from Korea has
got me thinking.
What is it that makes Cdn Beef so good,
or are we delusional.
We always brag about our Barley fed AB
beef, but it seems to me there is a very
small competitive advantage to brag
about.
We have very few bulls getting sold that
are ultrasounded, we have very little
feedback to the farm from beyond the
farm gate, with the exception of a few
programs like Cristoph's there is almost
no ownership to retail.
I know the arguments:
Genetics - we have the best genetics -
we have almost no one who measures
carcass merit and any really good
genetics are accessible in a straw
anywhere in the world. Ask the
Brazilian who AI's 100000 cows. They
can have our genetics in 9 months.
Health - maybe something here - no FMD,
but OZ, NZ, etc. are in the same
playground
Barley finished - It is not rocket
science to grow barley and feed it to a
cow. When I was in Oz I saw a lot of
feedlots being constructed to add value
to barley.
Don't get me wrong, I think Canadian
beef is good, but I am not sure how we
claim to be the best. I know what we
are doing at our place, but I feel we
are the exception rather than the rule.
If we are gun ho about stepping out of
the US shadow and being the best, then
what do we need to do to ensure we are
and prove it?

[grassfarmer]

Good post Sean. I'm inclined to think we are a bit
delusional - but don't feel bad - most beef producing
countries think the same. The Scots have always thought
their beef the best - after all the Angus and the Beef
Shorthorn were their invention. The Argentinians think
their beef can't be beaten etc etc.

I got this recently from Beef Breeds Council but I believe
it's a creation of Canada Beef.

"The following attributes are part of the Canadian Beef
Advantage:

1. high-quality beef

2. high-yielding beef carcasses

3. superior cattle breeds and beef genetics

4. a clean and environmentally-friendly production
system

5. effective cattle identification system that enables
traceability and source/age verification

6. HACCP-based food safety systems second to none at
the packer level and voluntary on-farm HACCP-based
food safety systems

7. Canadians as people with integrity

8. the commitment of Canadians to leadership and
innovation"

I would comment as follows
1 - hollow claim - compared to what?
2 - maybe, but again compared to what/whose?
3 - absolute BS - superior breeds like what the
Canadienne? everybody else has all the other breeds too
I think.
4 - Out on the foothill ranches maybe, not so much the
feedlots in the oldman and bow river basins
5 - What a joke - a totally bogus claim
6 - don't know enough to comment
7 - a believable concept
8 - any more than other countries or their citizens?

This is the kind of hollow "industry" BS that backs the
claims of the "best in the world". Certainly there are
good things about Canadian beef, our production
systems and our producers but there are in other
countries too.
I've said it on here before the two best steaks I've ever
had (excluding my own which I prefer but can't judge
objectively) came from very different sources. One was
an outstanding Angus steak BBQ'd by the hand of the
then Canadian Angus President. The other was in South
Africa, grilled on the braai and it was cow beef imported
from Botswana. I honestly couldn't tell which was the
best - they were both very, very good - and remarkably
similar. After that experience I'm rather cautious of
saying who has the "best beef in the world".

[per]

I've spent plenty of time thinking and talking about this as well. Being a born and bred beef eating enthusiast I have been on a life long taste test and sampled local beef in a dozen different countries over the years. All that can be said is there is very good beef to be had all around the world and very bad beef to be had all around the world. We might have an edge on a few countries with consistency, maybe. The big thing for me is that we must give the customer what they want as opposed to telling them what is good for them.

[forage]

Per you hit the bull in the ass with the scoop shovel. Before I decided it was time to settle down I travelled through out many countries and you are dead on at the variance of quality and taste of beef. Canadian beef is praised by Canadians because it is what we were raised on and how it was prepared. For any fool to try and convince another country's beef producer that yours is far superior is dreaming. Let's try and resolve a fair price that can be sold to even our middle range income families that cann't even afford a feed of our so called best beef in the world. There is a never ending customer right here in Canada. The middle men and ever one else who adds on to price has created a non accessible market to most. The days of raising a couple butcher steers , sheep, hogs, chickens , et. and running them to the local butcher for resale are dead and gone.

[kato]

"The days of raising a couple butcher steers , sheep, hogs, chickens , et. and running them to the local butcher for resale are dead and gone. "

Actually, that may not be exactly true. In fact now it's a growing trend. There's a little thing called the local food movement that's quietly taking hold. You don't hear about it in the mass media, but it is happening, and it's all under the radar. There are more and more people all the time who are losing faith in the mass produced food available in the stores, and they are looking for alternative sources.

I spend time selling at the farmer's market in the summer, and we do have a loyal and growing customer base. I sell veggies, but we have others who do make a living selling beef, lamb and pork. Chickens can't be sold at the farmer's market, but can be sold farm direct. Those are always spoken for before they're processed. I know a few people who direct market their lambs, and most have their lamb crop spoken for before they're even born. They have waiting lists.

Is there money in it? I watched my farmer's market neighbour getting berated by one of the largest commercial hog operators in the province one Saturday morning. My friend with the hogs raised by his five sows farrowing once a year on pasture was making money, while the commercial guy was complaining about how he was losing ten thousand dollars a month with his huge barns. The big guy was complaining about the fact that my friend had "hormone free" on his sign, assuming he was advertising hormone free pork. (Actually it was his beef that he was advertising.) This same friend sells all his beef direct to consumers as well.

Getting back to the topic ...yes, his beef is a superior Canadian product. The hype about Canadian beef does apply to his operation. How it applies to something coming out of a ten thousand head feedlot is a whole other question.

[forage]

Exactly it is far under the radar hardly anyone knows about it. This area could be expanded 1000% , advertised whatever, the old system my grandfather use to talk about was ever small town had a local butcher shop that had lockers,retailed to customers product that farmers brought in.Two people involved farmer-buthcher. There were no Cargills reaping all the profit. I was amazed how government money flowed to the Cargil plant at High River. Land donated , grants you name it. I am surprized Cargil didn't convince the prov. government to supply meat cutters and put them on the government payroller. Wait they did,

[rkaiser]

We do have opportunity to expand that way of raising and marketing beef kato.

My wonderful friend Christoph is proving that there is a market beyond our own little value chain marketing of old fashioned naturally raised beef in Calgary. And we will be the next rung up the ladder when we open the plant at Balzac.

I don't know if good is the word to describe the "difference" but choice certainly is. People want a choice. One of the best books I have read about the cattle and beef industry is a book called "Steak" by a Canadian boy named Mark Schatzker. Our meat is not better than the rest of the world, but we do have the opportunity to make it different.

I personally feel that our conventional system of raising cattle to slaughter and even some of our slaughter procedures make our conventional Canadian Beef some of the worst in the world. Can I spew that around to market my own beef... Hell know, but it is my opinion.

We can all run down the way that beef is raised and slaughtered in other countries while we frankenstein our beef in the conventional North American way.

I mentioned this on another thread and will say it once more here.

In our conventional system the cow calf guy raises a steer from breeding stock that a purebred guy has developed to create a high quality carcass and an optimum size.

By high quality and optimum --- again my personal opinion --- I refer to a white fat well marbled rib eye that does not fill the whole consumers plate when cut at about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches thick.

This steer is now sent off to the second part of our dysfunctional value chain after the feeder gets it for as little as he can in our free enterprise, and also supply demand driven system. Which has no intent whatsoever to trickle anything down by the way.

This naturally genetic engineered steer is now exposed to hormones and beta agonists that modify his body in a way that takes everything the purebred guy worked for and throws it out the door. The feed and feeding system cause a need to load the steer up with antibiotics which are proven LOL to never cause any residual effects on the humans that eat him... I certainly hope everyone read the sarcasm in that sentence.

The extreme levels of barley and in the American sense GMO corn that this steer eats causes his entire biological system to be altered in a way that the God given attributes like CLA are taken away from the steer.

But we got a whole bunch of red meat protein and like everyone in our industry wants to keep telling me... We get paid by the pound.... Whatever. More sarcasm.........

Now this frankensteer is off to the slaughterhouse to be sprayed down with chemicals or maybe irradiated to make up for some of the collateral damage caused in the rearing time of his life by feed and chemical manipulation.

Are we better Sean --- I personally feel we could be if we followed Grandpa and forage and Kato and Christoph and grassfarmer before he gave up....LOL

Do we have the best system in the world to create frankenstein red meat protein and wonderful????dog food --- hell ya... come on everyone -- say it with me --- HELL YA.

Do we have the capability to responsibly create a wholesome nutritious product with ultimate respect for the consumer and market in a way that the producer can survive and thrive....YES WE DO. With conscious value chain from that cow calf guys steer all the way to the wholesaler or the retail counter.

[kato]

This is why my friend has a waiting list for his lamb and beef. Oh, and the Berkshire pork! OMG! It's also why I have had more than one "tomato fight" break out at my farmer's market table. LOL Really... I'm not kidding. You think you see a difference in commodity beef? Try a tomato in January from the grocery store. eeewwww......

As time goes by, quality will be the holy grail of buying food, and if we're smart, we'll be there to provide that good food.

[grassfarmer]

I never gave it up Randy, I'm still walking the talk
selling as much beef as I want to then turning away
customers. As forage says there is unbelievable
room for expansion in direct marketing of beef in
the domestic market. I'm sure there is more demand
than there are people prepared to break away from
conventional "marketing" to supply it.
I think thats really what it comes down to at the end
of the day - there are producers who will always sell
into the commodity system no matter the price, that
is what they know. Then there are producers who
want to go out and sell beef direct to the consumer,
put the work in to earn the extra dollars. I think
there is a third group too - the ones who would like
someone else to do the work, "save the industry" by
building a slaughter plant and selling beef around
the world. Problem with that group in my opinion is
most of them have unrealistic expectations. They
seem to want a $200/head premium for putting in
$5 of effort and preferably no capital investment or
risk on their part.

I have a friend in Ottawa who started with nothing -
no farm, no money, no cattle but a knowledge of
grass and grazing. He buys feeder heifers in the
spring fattens them on grass, gets them butchered
then divides the beef up into 10lb packs and sells
them in the city. He makes $500 an animal for his
efforts after paying expenses. He doesn't own land
he rents 65 acres, no buildings, no cow herd, no
machinery - he doesn't own a vehicle. He can hire
anything he needs. Last year he did 30 head and
this year he will do 40 which is as much as the land
base will support and his time will allow. 40 head
will be a $20,000 return from an operation with no
capital invested in land, machinery etc.
I think this shows the potential - if anybody wants
in on the beef retailing business get at it - the
opportunity is right there in front of us all. Best part
is you don't need to wait on someone building a
beef plant or someone securing market access or a
sale on another continent. It starves the existing
packers of cattle too so there is a feel good factor
involved as a bonus.

[rkaiser]

"They seem to want a $200/head premium for putting in $5 of effort and preferably no capital investment or
risk on their part."

Who is this group grassfarmer?

[grassfarmer]

A lot of the guys who talked about getting involved
or investing in a packing plant proposal in recent
years. They wanted a higher price for their weaned
calves and someone else to do the value adding yet
give them the premium. I would say the majority of
producers attending any packing plant presentation
that I attended.

[smcgrath76]

I think there are a lot of barriers to
changing the C/C end of the industry.
The first is skill set. If you think
through grassfed beef and the
specialized skills it takes there are
not a lot of individual operations that
have all of them:
skill in genetic selection
grazing skill
marketing skill
etc.
Even in conventional beef production,
feeding cattle takes a special skill
set, as does the agronomy of barley
growing, etc.
Another big barrier to change is cash
flow. Lots of guys are set up to make
their payments with fall weaned calves.
That said there is no reason things
can't be changed, but we are an industry
that is infrastructure heavy and often
in the wrong places. This creates a big
burden.
All of these are just "attitudes" but
attitudes rarely change without either
encouragement (read $$$) or desperation
(read no $$$). Desperation is a lot
easier to get action out of.
At the start of the thread I mentioned
that I know what we are doing at our
place, but I don't think the majority of
people are even doing things like buying
ultrasounded bulls, or participating in
VBP, or eco-monitoring. This creates
opportunity for specific value chains
but makes it hard to claim as an
industry that we are leading the quality
parade.
It's too bad we can't figure out a way
to create desperation and prosperity all
at the same time...

[ASRG]

I guess I'm what would be called one of these "commodity types", who somehow managed to survive the ups and downs for most of my life. I did it by trying to always turn a profit....keeping costs as low as possible and trying to get as much as possible out of the "commodity market".
While I can admire all you guys who value added by getting into the niche markets, it wasn't for me. The extra work and skill set needed wasn't worth it.....for me.
Now as I near the end of my cow days I look back on it as being a pretty good life. I think overall I did allright...got the kids raised....got the bills paid.....had a few bucks in my pocket.....never worked myself to death! What more could you ask?

[kato]

The direct marketing involves something that not everyone has, and that's the desire to work directly with the public. I know one cattle producer right now who has absolutely no interest in it, and he's outside doing chores as I type this. Which is why farmer's markets are my specialty, not his. I for one, just love working with the public.

I can see the day coming when we get older and are looking for less physical work, when we would have less cattle and add value to them, but for now, Hubby is perfectly happy with what he does. Besides the cows, we've gotten quite specialized in backgrounding light calves, and they've been good to us. He is very good at what he does, and so far it has kept us in business through some pretty nasty times.

When we get to where the cows is all we want to deal with, then value added will be a more likely option for us. In the meantime, I'll keep on with my own little direct marketing project, and Hubby will happily carry on with what his talents work best for. When the day to add value and maybe direct market beef comes along, the marketing I'm doing now will be a good foundation for it.

[Klause]

We bought for $790/cult acre... just closed the deal this past week.


Cheapest in the area, rest of land that we know sold went for $980 - 1150/acre.

This is Muenster, SK.


Selling the place in MB for around $860/ cult acre.... and that's in the bush, kinda like farming north of La Ronge in SK.

The farmland bubble is alive and well, and will be till a) interest goes up, b) grain prices crash.


We mortgaged that quarter... 15 yrs... payment is $500/month. No wonder everyone is buying, buying, buying!