Gaucho calf processing

[gaucho]

To be quite honest I don't why we all make such a ruccas out of calving... given the right clean environment (calving area) and the right time of the year nature will look after it... we have 300 mature cows that get checked during calving once per week, they are 45 minutes from home. I check them more or less so I don't feel guilty.... I find the more you do with cattle the more we screw it up... A bunch of examples have already been shown previously in this thread. Yes we will check our heifers more often but does a commercial guy really need to tag and the vitamin and selenium shots to me are BS.. make sure your cows get good TM salt and calve on grass... its as simple as that.... take some lessons from the bison producers

[tweaker101]

Sort of makes sense Gaucho, I guess that my problem is me..LOL, I still do like my father did..we tag,ring and give'm their shot. The only thing I changed was when they were born, best move yet we went from Feb calving to last week in May...less problems all around. Maybe the next step is to get rid of the rodeo part..lol.

[SADIE]

Allfarmer

I would like to make a comment now. The iodine regime has sort of gone by the wayside. In vet practice it was an issue to the early calving purebred herds at one time. Those were the days of taking calving problems to vet clinics---those days of line-ups at clinics waiting for c-sec are long gone now. Navel ill we saw lots of navel ill and it appeared we saw more when one put iodine (especially) inside the navel cord (right at birth).

Vit E & SE-inject---also the needle at birth is much less needed now with feeding the pregnant cows better or at one time DYSTOSEL DS was given to the preg cow before calving.

In our commercial operation --which is still calving in March/April time of year---I am able to walk out---with a "Stick" in hand. Apply an animal ID tag to the calf, ring the bull calf.

In about 4-5 days pairs get "kicked out" to larger fields. Because of Mar/April calving and fluctuations of temp to highs and lows We use Somnustar Ph---(bacterial pnuemonia) prevention at this time.

Herds here on agriville that calve on grass late April/May/June---might not need that Somnustar product during that time.

Good luck up north Allfarmer

[blackjack]

Sadie...just wondering at what age do you give the calves the sumnustar/ph shot...thanks in advance

[blackjack]

sorry after rereading your post I saw the answer

[ALLFARMER]

Thanks Sadie ....iodine is now out will see how it
goes. We do give a very good loose mineral to
the cows so I guess it's ring & ear tag. Just
medicate the coyotes before calving and go. My
neighbor spotted a coyote in his corral with his
corral camera the other night.

Maybe Sadie you can tell me about my uncle
Leonard Meier some time...since he's now
deceased and your no longer practicing. You
must have been around when his cows were
taken away? Maybe not much to tell, alcoholic
loses cattle.

[newguy]

We always had navel troubles years ago and a young vet told us to mix teat dip and alchol. It is the blue stuff. Anyway disenfects and drys very quick. No cows licking soggy navels. Been buying ingrediance from local vet but now he sells already mixed.

[kato]

Gaucho, just wondering. How the heck do you know who is who if you don't tag? We have a few calves born in the pasture every year that don't get tagged, and in the fall we put tags with generic numbers on them and watch to see which cow they hang out with. If there's a poor calf out there, we really want to know who it's mama is. It works, but it sometimes takes a while. I can't imagine doing it with 300 cows.

How do you know which cows are doing the better jobs, and which ones are not? Just curious.

[grassfarmer]

If you have a cow rearing a poor calf don't you already
know who she belongs to? Why do you need a
matching numbered ear tag on both cow and calf?
surely you can tell by observation who the mother is.
Maybe I'm just too interested in my cattle but I can
tell you every cow on the place by sight, not only her
number but who her mother was and what number
she may have had. My five year old daughter can
identify my stock bulls by name from a distance.
Maybe we would be considered cow nerds nowadays?
where I grew up it was considered stockmanship.

[kato]

It's not just for identifying poor cows that we tag early. That was just one example of how tagging helps. We consider the late cows who don't calve until they get to pasture to be the poor cows. They are the ones with the untagged calves, and we want to know who they are so they can be put on the elimination list. Sorry Gaucho, but this way of doing things has been working very well for a lot of years, and we're not about to change it.

Maybe our cattle are just too uniform. When it's time to go to pasture, our calves are like peas in a pod. There's no way on earth you would ever get the right pairs together to ship them to pasture unless they were tagged.

Sending mismatched pairs away to summer pasture sounds like pretty poor stockmanship to me.

[SADIE]

Kato---ditto----tagging the calf within 1 day of age to match the dam----Important here.

Blackjack---to give more information on Somnustar-ph. Label recommendations have a claim that can vaccinate within 24 hours of birth. I purchase 10 dose bottles and try to have about 8-10 calves that are strong enough (4-5 days old)--check the "ringed sac" for any loss or start of infection---give trivetrin if needed but somnustar and kick pairs out in new pasture area.

Allfarmer---My practice years were 1977-95 in Consort area. 1981-93 set up, built Border Vet Clinic in Provost with Brother & wife operating it till 1993.
Been ranching 200 miles east since 1996 and rarely go back. Funerals and occasional cheerful celebrations and possible the centennial this summer.

Situations like your uncle tried to stay clear of -----those were red-flag situations, avoided any starvation cases or animal mismanagement situations whenever we could.

[gaucho]

Kato here is an easy solution for late calvers.... sort the cows that have not calved at a certain date out and then you are already done with the cull.... and they are ready to load without having to do a sort in the fall... personally I don't care on the commercials if they are late, as long as they breed back since having a branded beef program requires a year round supply of cattle... yes I can agree if you have to load out pairs... what we do now is sort the cows that have to go a certain direction / pasture, lift the electric wire between the herd high enough and the calves will sort themselves for you... much more fun then listening to cows balling for hours while trying to match pairs. The other things is we now sort herds out for pastures in advance of calving so that there is no sorting needed for pasture groups... keep it simple and don't let traditions keep you stuck in paradigms.

[kato]

Actually it's the fences that keep us in paradigms. LOL Only so many places to put so many cows.

That's OK though. It's a system that's evolved to suit our setup, and it works for us... as long as the calves have tags. ;-)

I think there is no right and wrong in the cow business. Just what is right or wrong for any particular operation. If we had lots of pasture close to home, we'd likely do some things different, but we don't. It's cheaper to make the hay near the yard and save hauling on that, and to grow grazing corn near the yard, than it would be to have the cows at home and the feed farther away.

[grassfarmer]

I know you have got your reasons in your own
particular situation kato but in general terms why do
people need to make feed close to "the yard"? why
do cows need to be close to "the yard"? Cows have
legs and can go where the feed is and take their
manure with them as a bonus. Cows are healthier
and happier in my experience when they are not
corralled.
There are so many people trapped in paradigms
where everything is a big fight with nature - the
idea that cows need to live in a yard, protected from
winter while you haul feed and bedding to them.
Being near "the yard" usually encourages winter
calving and we get further trapped into a system
that requires heated calving barns and two hourly
checks around the clock. Higher production costs,
more weather risk and the chance to sell calves into
the lowest price period of the year.
What about August calving? no weather problems at
calving time, no need to be near a yard - ever.
There are lots and lots of ways to run cows but most
guys seem to follow the crowd rather than think of
"out of the box" options.

[kato]

For one thing, our home half section is cut in half by a railroad track. The south half contains a 40 acre pasture, the yard, and a 75 acre corn field which the cows graze from October to the end of January. They drink from the creek in the pasture until the end of January as well. Then they calf in the corrals, where there is already a good set of sheds and good big pens. They then go to the small pasture in April, where they are with the bulls until it's time to go to the summer pastures which are 12 and 50 miles away respectively. The north side of the tracks contains a remarkably productive alfalfa/brome crop. There is no water, there are no trees, and no shelter across the tracks. We cannot get a well over there, and there is no hydro.

Our system evolved to use the layout of our land to it's best advantage. Everyone should do the same and use what they've got in the way that it works for them. It will be different for everyone.

How would you re-arrange it?