PFRA pastures

[wmoebis]

I'm not a cattle producer but I am a supplier to your industry. I grow feed grain, hay and rent out grain land for fall grazing.

I am wondering how the sale of PFRA pastures will impact the industry. Will this increase the over all numbers or decrease? Will there be room for more intensive tame grass grazing? Will smaller producers that maybe rely on putting 30/40 head in pastures just get out or will they by in? If the small guys get out will these numbers be replaced by the big guys.

Will this be good for the most cattle producers or is it going to push a lot of guys out and force "get big or go home " attitude?

It would be nice to hear from all size of operations so we can get a good view of changes that are comming.

[kato]

I don't see it being good, but the fact is that the PFRA pastures have been quietly, surely and slowly pricing themselves out of business for the past few years. We spent years on a waiting list for space at the local PFRA, and when we finally got to the front of the line, we couldn't afford to use them.

IMHO they could have made more effort to keep the prices in line, but the will wasn't there. Empty pastures can be justified as being surplus to be sold off. What better way to empty them than to make them too expensive to use?

We moved to using private pastures a long time ago, and are very happy with the way it is now. It's more flexible, there's a lot less red tape, and we have more control over hauling dates.

I think there will be guys who go out of cows because of this. It can be hard to get access to private pastures in certain areas.

It's just another example of just how high on the priority list the beef producers of this country are.

[SADIE]

wmoebis----I farm/ranch just north of you along the west side of Lake Diefenbaker. Finally after years of applying in two pastures I have initially got in with 10 head, then 11 head, then 12 head and now the door is wide open. It was a great asset to keep smaller mixed farmers/ranchers in the cow-calf game.

Along came the RFID saga and pastures of intermingling. I will say it again here and I know there are some that don't like it but re-tagging those RFID eartags in the adult animals each spring is a "GONG SHOW". PFRA managers have complained big time to the efforts in re-tagging those bulls each year also. It has become an animal management problem. That is why a tremendous amount of patrons have now quit and sold their cows. Their facilities at home were not "good" and they felt too late in the game to spend $$$ to upgrade.

At one time PFRA pastures were set up here in central Saskatchewan so that patrons worked together and used the better corrals and facilities to process their cattle.

Now there are vacancies in these PFRA pastures and it isn't really about the price at this time, it is about the beaurocratic regulations on something RFID eartagging that doesn't mean a thing ---especially when you gather in the fall and there are tags missing when those cattle come home.

Loosing the smaller cow-calf producer I believe is going to hurt the industry in general. It will help keep cattle prices higher for a longer period of time. I know the loss of the smaller cow-calf producer is a huge concern to the rural practicing veterinarians.

Less producers mean less numbers for grain operations/hay operations to market their hay or feed grain to.

[Horse]

What are the rates in PFRA pastures here in alta we have comunity pastures and the one I am familar with is $22.50 private rent is more like $30/hd
with that you get salt mineral and pasture riders.

[grassfarmer]

Put the damn tags in right the first time and you
won't need to retag all the cows every year Sadie!

[SADIE]

Grassy---Some people are just "SLOW LEARNERS"

Well documented that the plastic RFID eartags are short-term tags at best. Use them that way. Many posts have been here on agriville now. Expert witnesses brought forward the data at the tribunal hearings. Technical support personnel from CCIA have confirmed that the plastic male buttons break down at the back of the tag ---either the cold weather or the UV light in the summer.

GRASSY--SHORT TERM TAG ONLY---SHORT TERM.

MAYBE WHEN YOU GROW UP AND GAIN A LITTLE MORE EXPERIENCE THE "LIGHT MIGHT COME ON---GRASSY".

[ALLFARMER]

Exactly Sadie

The Australian system is the way to go.

[grassfarmer]

It's not me that's living in darkness and a slow learner
- I've been using EID tags since they first came out -
how long is that 8-9 years ago now? Very, very few
losses. Less than 1% to the long yearling stage
doubtful if we have as much as 10% lifetime loss and
I'm using better tags now than I was to start with so
that will improve.
For all your talk of being an expert and how poor the
tags are the only picture I recall you posting - of
some heifers you were trying to sell - showed the
tags placed in the outer half of the ear. Read the tag
instructions on the bag and look at the picture -
"PLACE TAG IN INSIDE THIRD OF THE EAR"
I think you "picked the wrong hill to die on " with this
issue - it's a mound of BS.

[kato]

Horse, what do you mean by $22.00? Is that for the season? A few years ago we tried out fifteen pairs at a PFRA pasture, just to see how it would go.

Well, the manager threatened to lock up and go home if the truck didn't get there before five o'clock. Not a good start. We were sharing a semi with someone else, and truck schedules were not very flexible. We did get them there on time, but it was not easy.

When we picked them up in the fall, by the time you added the surcharge for the calves, breeding fees, (which were for us more of an insurance thing, since the cows had been with bulls for six weeks before), and all the other little odds and ends they tacked on, the bill was over $150.00 a pair.

They stood in a corral for two or three days before we got them loaded in the fall, and he was just as inflexible at pick up time as he was in the spring. A bill for $2250.00 on fifteen pairs is not worth it, IMHO.

[SADIE]

Kato---Your prices and comments about PFRA pastures are current.

In general in this area PFRA pastures have had excellent managers. The other choice is Co-Op pastures which has on occasion had problems with "Quality of Bulls" Patrons doing a "take your turn drive through checking". Work bees that have the same few showing up.

PFRA pasture cattle---have to be well vaccinated calves for pneumonias on arrival. This is a recurring comment at each biannual meeting on proper vaccination protocals and timing of calves coming in. Pasture riders & managers seem to be roping and treating heavy the first 10 days after "take-in". New patrons cattle appear to suffer the worst in "pull rate" treatment and death loss.

The one PFRA----Birsay pasture. Has been historically well run. It had a patron limit of 40-45 pairs and as of last fall with the continued drop out a motion has gone to allowing a limit of 60 pairs/patron.

This pasture is the one that has the mandatory 3 tag/animal. Fly tag because of a fly problem close to Lake Diefenbaker, ID dangle tag, and the RFID eartag.

Back to the original start of this thread by moebis. If the PFRAs are going to be lost in this area and the lands sold out privately I believe the loss of the smaller cow-calf producer will have a negative impact on this area in the agribusiness you stated in your original thread.

To grassfarmers comments---I will start a new post this morning to continue his discussion.

[Horse]

kato No I mean $22 per mo. You have a number and cattle are broughjt in in line with your no First in first out based on 5 mo grass and if pastures dry up or whatever there may be an early pull
You can ether bring a bull or pay a fee to use other guys bulls and there is a bred pasture with a few cleanup bulls. they also have a yearling pasture for 3 mo I think at $14. per mo. Numbers are down last yr but no are down all across the province.

[kato]

Thank you.

[newguy]

Hate to see it but is it possible a bunch of the PFRA pastures end up in the hands of the big livestock auction companies? They already pay people to custom graze their cattle for the summer. This may be an obvious fit.

[wheat]

Golly what big auction company would be buying community pastures? Increaded grazing costs may remind people of the true value of grazing in a $14 canola market.

[smcgrath76]

Don't count out One Earth