Do you remember ?

[ASRG]

grassfarmer: I don't know how it could have been done differently. I guess if the class action law suit ever makes it's way to court we'll get an answer one way or the other?
It seems to me the USA cattleman sure never took the hit like we did? In fact they saw record prices while we were starving! Our so called "free trade deal" worked great for the big packers....not so good for us little guys.
I have grown very cynical in the last ten years. I view the government as the enemy.

[grefer]

With all due respect Grassfarmer, the amount of money I recieved from government was insignificant.We have a mixed farm so we don,t only rely on cattle.We are cow/calf producers and usually don't background our calves or others.2002,03,04,were the worst years I had ever experienced farming and until then I thought I would never survive 3 consecutive years like those.Poor crops because of drought,insects ,frost,and BSE were the perfect storm but we were fortunate and have continue to make ends meet.I feel bad for those who were in beef alone,I can't imagine what that must have been like and I due understand the anger some have with all the B.S. we were fed through the BSE crisis.Hopefully the beef industry can have a run of good years so that those who could hang in there can make back some of the dollars lost.

[kato]

We were totally 100% cattle.

However, after we got past the bunch of expensive calves we had on hand when the border closed, the feeder side of the ledger improved some. It was only through the occasional profit from those cheaper bought backgrounding calves that we are still in the business. We didn't make money on every bunch, but we always at least broke even. We never actually lost money on them. It wasn't much profit, but it kept us here.

This is where my opinion that the cow calf producer suffered the most comes from. From first hand experience. The poor guys who sold us those calves all lost money on every single calf. Our strategy was to use the feeders to keep us afloat until the cows came back to being profitable.

Ironically, now that cattle prices have improved, we can no longer pencil in a safe margin on the feeders.

The cows are back in the driver's seat, and we are so very glad we did whatever we could to keep them. We weren't comfortable with probably the last three groups of backgrounders we had, and are glad to be able to step back for a while.

That's enough stress for now.

[smcgrath76]

We returned to the farm in 2002 and went on a steep learning curve. We came out of the 2002 drought with 3/8" of
moisture from May 1st to Sept 30th. We sent a group of cows east of Weyburn for the winter, and put a bunch out
on the prairie here.
Being a glass half full kind of guy...
We sold our backgrounded calves prior to May that year as the price was well above our breakeven, so we dodged the
2003 hurt. We cash flowed OK because we sold a bunch of cows in 2002 as part of our drought management plan.
That revenue was allowed to be deferred under the drought assistance tax program. It also meant when BSE hit we
had a herd of young, productive cows (a blessing in disguise as it turned out).
In 2003 we bought feeder calves in the fall following 2 weeks of bad news. We sold them well ahead of plan
following two weeks of good news. We also bought some bred cows that turned out OK.
Since BSE and drought again in 2009, we have driven our costs down and increased our cowherd, but it has been
demanded by cash flow needs and has not been wildly profitable (but still healthy).
The mentality around here about spending money has actually driven quite a bit of profit into our operation.
There was a lot of money spent on the cow/calf side (the Set aside program was a good example), but a lot of that
was bid out of the cattle. I distinctly remember selling calves with pink floppy tags (Dad drew the short straw
and got stuck with pink) and they were ready to bid the $80 set aside payment out of the calves. That was a day
when it paid to be present. The question from the block was "Are these set asides?" and the answer was "They sure
as hell are not!". That saved us $80 a head.
We also decided to work on exiting the cattle business and enter the food business, so purchased a portion of a
packing plant. Glass half full - we learned a lot, and we are entering the food business but with a different
model.
I think a lot of cattle will continue to disappear and we may have reached the tipping point. Coming out the
other side I am grateful that we had a manageable debt load, that we have multiple generations with good
communication and willingness to innovate and that we stuck it out. Our operation is leaner and meaner than
before but we continually work to protect ourselves from the vagaries of something similar happening again. I
think there is lots of blame to go around, and I won't feel sorry when the legal battle plays out. The sad part
is that the grieving process for those who sold their cows is much shorter than many expected.

[ASRG]

sean: I sure hear you on the 2002 and 2009 drought! Those two years were pretty tough!
Maybe in the big picture you are going to be a better long term producer, because you unerstand how ugly it can get!
I like your attitude of being a low cost producer and really understanding cash flow. In my time it was always about bigger, more production at whatever the cost, and to hell with adding value beyond the farm gate!
People like you and grassfarmer will be the future of the cattle business.
My time in the cattle business is coming to a close. I fully understand the seasons of our life and I'm pretty much okay that soon it will be time to quit. I'll walk away with a few bucks in my pockets and I will surely hope there will always be a cow/calf business in Alberta.

[tman]

The implosion of the cattle industry was just sped up and brought to life by the BSE event. The industry as a whole (Canadian, American whichever they're both the same) has such tremendous flaws in it that it's ridiculous. Also equally ridiculous is the so few people who are actually taking things into their own hands and making changes so they don't get brought down by the flawed industry. From reading posts on here currently and in the past, as well as meeting a very few in select schools over the years, and now recently meeting two who are selling their product directly, there are some producers who give me hope.

I've always thought and still do that there's much potential in the cattle business. I think the current paradigm just needs to finish self destructing.

[per]

tman, do you think there is no place for a commodity model in the beef industry?

[gaucho]

No offense, its the shits what happened, but there is also a time to get on with life... you cannot change what is and has happened only what is coming at you. For as bad as some people put up on BSE there was also tons of opportunities to grow herds and the other part of the equation everyone forgets was that there was a steady appreciation of the CDN dollar... did we all forget he dollar was in the low $60s to the US Buck.... that also had an impact on values.

[tman]

If you mean a commodity model that currently exists with futures and cash sells/buys etc, I see no reason for there not to be a place.

The marketing side of the beef industry is not what I'm totally opposed to. It is the standard production practices that I see the flaws in.

How the animals are marketed is essentially irrelevant as to the final product. You can market a good quality product or a bad quality product and still make or lose money. I disagree with the whole canola thing but you can still make money growing it.

I wouldn't change anything with the current commodity model, just how it's done. The production needs to be turned right around and some things thrown out.

[SADIE]

tman

Please go on---what is your idea of proper production? What should be thrown out?

Since 911, Then BSE Our operation was making changes that I thought would help survival---going forward.