RFID report card

[kato]

But if a tag is lost, is it not supposed to be retired out of the system? I don't think we're supposed to just re-age verify them.

In Manitoba we get refunded zip. zero. nada. That's my main problem with the whole thing. If we were under Alberta's system however, we would have still bought over two hundred dollars worth of tags last year.

[grassfarmer]

As long as there is a half-assed system with no
enforcement I'm not going the extra mile Kato. When
you buy your tags they know who has them - if a calf
dies with a tag on before you age verify them there is
no logical need to retire the tag - doesn't matter to
anyone if the tag is sitting in my barn unused or
inside a coyote - it's either registered on the system
or it's not, if it's not it's nobodies business but mine.

It's an Alberta advantage not paying for calf tags for
sure, but hardly worth you selling up and moving
here with the land values as they are.
I checked back and see we sold 18 cull cows last year,
there would be maybe 9 to tag on the way out. Some
pre 2000 cows, some barcode tags to add an EID to
and a few lost tags. I'll say it again - very rarely do we
lose an EID tag that I've applied to a cow since they
started with them - from my perspective the accounts
of tag losses seem exaggerated.

[SADIE]

GRASSFARMER---WAKEUP AND LOOK AROUND

THE TAG LOSSES ARE ACCURATE. REPORTS HAVE COME IN NOW FROM ACROSS CANADA.

THEY ARE A SHORT TERM TAG ONLY SO LET US USE THEM THAT WAY AT THE MOST. RFID IN ANIMAL WHEN SELL ie CALF IN FALL, COW GOING TO SLAUGHTER THAT IS ALL THE SYSTEM IS TURNING OUT TO BE.

[kato]

That sounds sensible to me. We should tag them when we sell them. Period.

This business of having to re-tag them every spring when they go to pasture is not making sense. They are not changing hands. They are not mixing with other cattle. They are coming home again in the fall. We know where they are. They can be located if it was necessary. How much tracking is needed? Does the government really need to know which of our cows are in which pasture?

As far as I'm concerned traceability means being able to follow the chain of commerce, not tracking where our cows are on our own farm. What purpose does it serve?

Expensive noseyness, IMHO.

[grassfarmer]

SADIE, You can't claim to speak for all producers any
more than I can, you have one opinion and I have
another. For all the "Chicken Little" claims you and
others have made the system we have now is
working, thousands upon thousands of cattle are
moving around the country daily and weekly with rfid
tags on them. Have been for years now. Thousands
upon thousands of calves have been age verified and
that's working too. I just came in ten minutes ago and
the sky was still up there.

[SADIE]

History of the RFID eartag in other species. Retention became a huge problem there as well.

1)The Ostrich Industry---RFID tags were tried and soon aborted. The other ostrich would peck the Shiny or colored button off the other ones ear.

2)The elk Industry-tried the RFID tag---the partners would chew off the button off the others ear.

History of the male back button/female plastic ALLFLEX style eartag.

First saw and sold these tags/ allflex style with dangle tag in the 1970s. There were ripped ears, break off at the necks of the tags. Some would stay in some of the cows for a while longer than others.

1980---Along came the allflex system fly tags. Short term tag only. Male backs. Some would last the entire season any many producers would clean up the ears of animals by removing tags in the fall. By the time the second year came around the backs of the male buttons (Plastic) have broken away and many tags gone from the animal. The two clinics that I was owner and operator of sold many many tags. Many demos from tags suppliers on where these tags break down. Cold weather in winter and ultra violet light in the summer was the major contributor on plastic breakdown.

Now the famous RFID Buttons That were never tested in Canadian conditions. There is the same plastic, Metal washer and weather conditions extreme and outside the environmental conditions set for these tags.

I ask you these questions?

1)Could retention of RFID tags be better in Australia where they graze close to 11 months of the year?

2)Could this be why the americans did not want to go with animal ID using this sort of tagging system.

3)Why not use these RFID tag systems in the equine species? Tagging deep in the ear of a horse is a very sensitive area of that animal and there could be a upcry of being inhumane in the equine species.

4)At the Western Canadian Association of BOvine Practicioners Dr. Temple Grandin did speak about the RFID eartag applied deep in the bovine's and bison's ear as well. The cartilage is thicker and it is very painful also to those animals. First a plug of cartilage is removed. A tug or ear tear on those ears is very painful. Memory recall in these animals is very strong. Re-tagging adult bovine (cow or bulls) is causing animal behavior problems gathering and processing in chutes now. Operators arms, limbs faces are being injured.

Constant re-tagging to follow the current laws is setting up concern to some regarding animal welfare issues.

Grassfarmer---I have problem solved situations in large animal practice since my veterinary school days of the mid 70s. Continuing ed courses with veterinarians or producers I actively participate in. There is a problem with this system the way it is. I will remain a cow-calf producer for a few years yet and I will continue to raise a voice or post comments regarding my concern.

Final question Kato. What is your report card status on the RFID eartag as it stands now.

[grassfarmer]

Not much of an ear on an ostrich SADIE - have you
ever seen someone try to hang a tag on an ostrich
ear? Saw hundreds of them in South Africa around
1995 and the "tags" seemed to be implanted into the
necks somehow, visible from the outside but not
hanging loose like an ear tag. Maybe you want to
rethink the pulling them off each others ears story lol.

[kato]

Spring 2012 27 retags makes 72% retention in cows. That's on one day of processing for pasture. Spring 2011 we re-tagged 18 cows on pasture day, and during last winter, we retagged 15 cows and 2 feeders. Twelve month total was 60 tags.

This is the first year in at least five that we haven't had to retag every bull on the place. However, they are all only two years old, so I expect that to change.

I think it's getting worse every year because the existing tags are getting older and more frail. I don't think they're designed to live as long as a good cow does.

[SADIE]

Goodmorning Grassfarmer

You are correct "not much of an ear on an Ostrich.

RFID report card is the topic of this thread.

This was exactly what came out of a round-table discussion last winter with a group of veterinarians including myself and CFIA veterinarians. The topic was RFID individual animal identification. The discussion came from others looking at the Ostrich Industry---Which is now non- existant in Canada. RFID tags put wherever for ID did not stay in the animal for the previous mentioned reasons.

Retention of the RFID markers in all species is becoming a bigger problem and now is being discussed more often.

This was a "brainstorming session" of RFID animal ID where we are now. What can we learn from useage in other species.

Spring Meeting April 26 in Saskatoon CCIA REP made his first comment. The number one concern he is receiving is the problem with RFID tag retention. Only one year earlier CCIA REPS wouldn't even talk about retention. They immediately told the producer that it was all in the application. Now the topic is retention.

Now it is mid 2012. Are we any closer in achieving individual animal ID than we were back in early 2000s?

How can we have traceability until permanent individual animal ID is first accomplished?

[SADIE]

Today's article in the Regina Leader Post. Saskatchewan's new ag minister m<a href="http://s1138.photobucket.com/albums/n523/kphaber/?action=view&current=img397.jpg" target="_blank"></a>akes announcement.

[PAMI]

The "five province" study mentioned in the posted article is only one of many research projects underway that hope to improve the tag retention issue. The five province study is being done by Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada in collaboration with the Western Beef Development Centre. They selected several herds in each province and tagged several types of animals with all types of approved tags. They'll monitor the retention and take note of the different management practices at each farm (i.e.: twine removal, metal vs wood corrals, type of headgate, etc).

PAMI (Prairie Agricultural Machinery Institute) in Humboldt, SK is also working on a project to help improve tag retention (funded by SK Ministry of Ag). PAMI will measure tag variability (pin length, pull apart strength, insertion force) for all approved tags at a variety of operating temperatures (-40 C to 30 C). Based on those results and a review of the design of various tags, a new tag design or placement might be defined. The new design, placement, or tagging protocols will be tested by tagging calves (10 per "treatment") and monitoring for one full year (starting in Spring 2013).

PAMI will ensure all information gained from the study is public and will present the results at various trade shows and field days.

So the research community was slow on the update, but hopefully we can help improve tag retention and reduce the frustration (and cost) associated with this voluntary program.

[grassfarmer]

But lets not pretend the tags we are using now are
untested because they aren't. There was an approval
process for the different makes of tag based on
retention rates before RFID tags were introduced
initially.

[PAMI]

Grassfarmer, you are absolutely correct.

According to the CCIA, before a tag is approved for use it must pass a test and achieve a 99% retention rate in 1,500 animals for at least 90 days. The CCIA also established standards for the insertion force required to clamp the tag as well as a standard stem break force. Audits are conducted to determine if tags continue to work as well as they did at the time they were approved. If a tag fails the audit, the manufacturer of the tag must remedy the deficiency or the tag will no longer be approved for use.

While CCIA tests tag retention over a wide range of high and low temperatures, the material in some tags seem too light to stand up to sun, temperature, and typical rangeland conditions. During the retention trials, tags are applied under controlled conditions, which can result in inflated retention rates. Finally, there does not appear to be a standard for stem length or the thickness of the back, both of which can affect placement and retention.

The PAMI study hopes to assess retention rates using "real world" scenarios to determine if modifying application protocols or tag design can improve retention rates. We will also be monitoring tag retention for MORE than 90 days (which is more realistic for actual use).

[kato]

90 days? That explains a lot. Feedlot tags would pass that test. Likely ribbons on their tails would too.

[SADIE]

PAMI

Thankyou for coming about this thread and offering your input.

My concern from the beginning was the retention rate in the adult bovine animal not the young calf.

The anatomy and proceedure of application in a fresh calf's ear on tag application is much different than the anatomy and proceedure in placement of an adult cow and bulls ear. Thickness of cartilage alone, retraint especially on re-tagging and animals having previous experience.

At any of the upcoming research has there been utilization of animal behavior personnel in the upcoming studies? Specifically as one looks at re-tagging process in cows and bulls?

Dr. Joe Stookey is on WCVM staff and close to the research farm at Turmunde (If that is one of your working sites).

My 48 months of gathered research on tagging and retagging with RFID eartags have revealed best useage of the current tag is a "SHORT-TERM" tag.

As a cow-calf producer how do you think some of us feel towards CCIA organization now and going forward when cow-calf producers struggled with using this "short-term" tag in ones cow-herd.

Cows in herds that had to go into inter-mingling pastures for summer breeding saw the biggest impact of "retention loss" and re-tagging. Defending oneself against animal health laws like section 176 came into play.

Has the CCIA got any credability left with some grass roots cow-calf producers?