RFID report card

[SADIE]

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Kato---as a producer do you remove these and replace at this time or wait till that cow shows up later in the chute and do it when the RFID eartag is missing.

section 179---Illegilly remove or cause removal of an eartag from an animal or carcass---this is a serious offence.

I am asking this for a reason. As a management tool it is easier to cross-reference the RFID eartag and deregister that tag that will be lost with the data base at this time and apply a new RFID eartag that is fresh and has a chance of lasting in that cows ear for the next 18 months.

Our experience challanging CFIA at a Tribunal hearing and witnessing other cattlemen along their journey. Those present understood from CFIA that they can apply a fine under the ANIMAL HEALTH ACT up to two years after the incidence. CFIA personnel are cowards. They do not fine you on site but send a beautiful registered letter to you by mail.

[kato]

There were two that were just hanging on by the edges of what was left of a broken back. They were both Allflex setaside tags, if you can believe that. They are the last tags of that kind on the farm. Out of fifty. We couldn't believe they lasted this long. We left one on, because the cow has a bit of a crooked horn that her ear hides behind. The other one is now wearing two tags, because we didn't trust her to come home with the broken one.

The other 25 were just plain gone. And no ears were ripped.

[grassfarmer]

Kato the cross referencing is simple. If we have a
yearling to sell that has lost a tag, just slap on a new
tag, come into the house, register the new number
with the original date of birth and you are good to go.
You don't "lose the age verification" because it's still
age verified. I haven't had to retag a young animal
we've sold since the fall of 2010. Cows get checked in
the alley on the way to town when we cull them -
missing tag, stick one on - end of story.
We get refunded the cost of tags up to the average #
of our calf crop the last 3 years. So in theory if you
replace any in either young cattle or cows you'd need
to buy the extras.

[kato]

But if a tag is lost, is it not supposed to be retired out of the system? I don't think we're supposed to just re-age verify them.

In Manitoba we get refunded zip. zero. nada. That's my main problem with the whole thing. If we were under Alberta's system however, we would have still bought over two hundred dollars worth of tags last year.

[grassfarmer]

As long as there is a half-assed system with no
enforcement I'm not going the extra mile Kato. When
you buy your tags they know who has them - if a calf
dies with a tag on before you age verify them there is
no logical need to retire the tag - doesn't matter to
anyone if the tag is sitting in my barn unused or
inside a coyote - it's either registered on the system
or it's not, if it's not it's nobodies business but mine.

It's an Alberta advantage not paying for calf tags for
sure, but hardly worth you selling up and moving
here with the land values as they are.
I checked back and see we sold 18 cull cows last year,
there would be maybe 9 to tag on the way out. Some
pre 2000 cows, some barcode tags to add an EID to
and a few lost tags. I'll say it again - very rarely do we
lose an EID tag that I've applied to a cow since they
started with them - from my perspective the accounts
of tag losses seem exaggerated.

[SADIE]

GRASSFARMER---WAKEUP AND LOOK AROUND

THE TAG LOSSES ARE ACCURATE. REPORTS HAVE COME IN NOW FROM ACROSS CANADA.

THEY ARE A SHORT TERM TAG ONLY SO LET US USE THEM THAT WAY AT THE MOST. RFID IN ANIMAL WHEN SELL ie CALF IN FALL, COW GOING TO SLAUGHTER THAT IS ALL THE SYSTEM IS TURNING OUT TO BE.

[kato]

That sounds sensible to me. We should tag them when we sell them. Period.

This business of having to re-tag them every spring when they go to pasture is not making sense. They are not changing hands. They are not mixing with other cattle. They are coming home again in the fall. We know where they are. They can be located if it was necessary. How much tracking is needed? Does the government really need to know which of our cows are in which pasture?

As far as I'm concerned traceability means being able to follow the chain of commerce, not tracking where our cows are on our own farm. What purpose does it serve?

Expensive noseyness, IMHO.

[grassfarmer]

SADIE, You can't claim to speak for all producers any
more than I can, you have one opinion and I have
another. For all the "Chicken Little" claims you and
others have made the system we have now is
working, thousands upon thousands of cattle are
moving around the country daily and weekly with rfid
tags on them. Have been for years now. Thousands
upon thousands of calves have been age verified and
that's working too. I just came in ten minutes ago and
the sky was still up there.

[SADIE]

History of the RFID eartag in other species. Retention became a huge problem there as well.

1)The Ostrich Industry---RFID tags were tried and soon aborted. The other ostrich would peck the Shiny or colored button off the other ones ear.

2)The elk Industry-tried the RFID tag---the partners would chew off the button off the others ear.

History of the male back button/female plastic ALLFLEX style eartag.

First saw and sold these tags/ allflex style with dangle tag in the 1970s. There were ripped ears, break off at the necks of the tags. Some would stay in some of the cows for a while longer than others.

1980---Along came the allflex system fly tags. Short term tag only. Male backs. Some would last the entire season any many producers would clean up the ears of animals by removing tags in the fall. By the time the second year came around the backs of the male buttons (Plastic) have broken away and many tags gone from the animal. The two clinics that I was owner and operator of sold many many tags. Many demos from tags suppliers on where these tags break down. Cold weather in winter and ultra violet light in the summer was the major contributor on plastic breakdown.

Now the famous RFID Buttons That were never tested in Canadian conditions. There is the same plastic, Metal washer and weather conditions extreme and outside the environmental conditions set for these tags.

I ask you these questions?

1)Could retention of RFID tags be better in Australia where they graze close to 11 months of the year?

2)Could this be why the americans did not want to go with animal ID using this sort of tagging system.

3)Why not use these RFID tag systems in the equine species? Tagging deep in the ear of a horse is a very sensitive area of that animal and there could be a upcry of being inhumane in the equine species.

4)At the Western Canadian Association of BOvine Practicioners Dr. Temple Grandin did speak about the RFID eartag applied deep in the bovine's and bison's ear as well. The cartilage is thicker and it is very painful also to those animals. First a plug of cartilage is removed. A tug or ear tear on those ears is very painful. Memory recall in these animals is very strong. Re-tagging adult bovine (cow or bulls) is causing animal behavior problems gathering and processing in chutes now. Operators arms, limbs faces are being injured.

Constant re-tagging to follow the current laws is setting up concern to some regarding animal welfare issues.

Grassfarmer---I have problem solved situations in large animal practice since my veterinary school days of the mid 70s. Continuing ed courses with veterinarians or producers I actively participate in. There is a problem with this system the way it is. I will remain a cow-calf producer for a few years yet and I will continue to raise a voice or post comments regarding my concern.

Final question Kato. What is your report card status on the RFID eartag as it stands now.

[grassfarmer]

Not much of an ear on an ostrich SADIE - have you
ever seen someone try to hang a tag on an ostrich
ear? Saw hundreds of them in South Africa around
1995 and the "tags" seemed to be implanted into the
necks somehow, visible from the outside but not
hanging loose like an ear tag. Maybe you want to
rethink the pulling them off each others ears story lol.

[kato]

Spring 2012 27 retags makes 72% retention in cows. That's on one day of processing for pasture. Spring 2011 we re-tagged 18 cows on pasture day, and during last winter, we retagged 15 cows and 2 feeders. Twelve month total was 60 tags.

This is the first year in at least five that we haven't had to retag every bull on the place. However, they are all only two years old, so I expect that to change.

I think it's getting worse every year because the existing tags are getting older and more frail. I don't think they're designed to live as long as a good cow does.

[SADIE]

Goodmorning Grassfarmer

You are correct "not much of an ear on an Ostrich.

RFID report card is the topic of this thread.

This was exactly what came out of a round-table discussion last winter with a group of veterinarians including myself and CFIA veterinarians. The topic was RFID individual animal identification. The discussion came from others looking at the Ostrich Industry---Which is now non- existant in Canada. RFID tags put wherever for ID did not stay in the animal for the previous mentioned reasons.

Retention of the RFID markers in all species is becoming a bigger problem and now is being discussed more often.

This was a "brainstorming session" of RFID animal ID where we are now. What can we learn from useage in other species.

Spring Meeting April 26 in Saskatoon CCIA REP made his first comment. The number one concern he is receiving is the problem with RFID tag retention. Only one year earlier CCIA REPS wouldn't even talk about retention. They immediately told the producer that it was all in the application. Now the topic is retention.

Now it is mid 2012. Are we any closer in achieving individual animal ID than we were back in early 2000s?

How can we have traceability until permanent individual animal ID is first accomplished?