Hay price

[Happytrails]

The 40-45 cents worth of manure a day that GF says comes out the back of a cow gets my attention. Guess I never thought about it that way but it makes sense. I had finally come to the realization that feeding hay where it grew might keep the fields fertile indefinitely. If you had hay you didn't need you would be better off letting some cows eat it in your field than selling it cheap. HT

[grassfarmer]

Depends what was growing in your hayfield HT. Cows
only recycle at best about 85% of what they consume
so a field with enough nutrients to grow grass for 100
cows one year would only have enough nutrients to
grow enough for 85 cows the next year. Hence the
need for legumes.
Absolutely you would be better off grazing the hay at
home rather than selling it. I have never, and would
never sell forage off my place. Can't afford to.

[ASRG]

Well I've never got feeding costs down to $80/cow. Usually in that $140-$160 range for hay and straw. That doesn't include running a tractor. The tractor I use is very fuel efficient (japanese) and I keep it in a shop with a timer on the plug in.
I run relatively efficient cows (Angus) and don't start calving until April.
I feed (and bed) out in the field on a quarter section, but often need to feed near willow brush due to wind. The grass is pretty lush in those areas!

[grassfarmer]

The $80 I quoted was what might come out the back
end of a cow over a 200 day winter not what goes in
the front end ASRG. We can't winter them for $80 -
not even for the 100 day period.

[ASRG]

I'm kind of intrigued with Sean's idea of "bunching hay"? I was at a farm sale where there was this old dump rake (you had to sit on it to trip it-horse equipment).
I can kind of see how it might work. Not sure if it would be worth the trouble or time......?

[smcgrath76]

ASRG - depends on your paradigm...
Rake bunch about 8 mph. No tying time,
20 minutes a week moving wire in the
winter.
If you were to cut and bale and haul
home, and haul out in the winter time
you are looking at a lot more time and
$. If you were to silage you are
looking at a few guys, equipment and a
winter time investment to feed it out
again. A lot probably depends as well
on your per acre investment and need for
productivity.
We still need to experience a range of
fall weather, before I would be
supremely confident in the ability of
the bunches to withstand large amounts
of fall moisture. I know they can
handle a lot of wind...

[grassfarmer]

That's what I love about paradigms - everyone
justifies the one they are in ;o)
You need to compare like to like to be fair. Hauling
bales home and back out in winter isn't necessary,
you could presumably graze the bales with electric
fence too. You could save the tying time on the baler
too if you wanted, just drop them untied.
Not saying there is anything wrong with your system
Sean - very creative - I just get tired of guys
comparing apples to oranges to justify their
paradigm.
All the claims made for cost savings with swath/bale
grazing that are always compared with wintering in
corrals with bedding and clean-out costs. I'm more
interested in how they compare with wintering cows
out on the same fields with no bedding and no corral
cleaning costs.

[smcgrath76]

Good point GF. I plead guilty to using
the comparison with the standard approach
that probably isn't so standard anymore.

[tweaker101]

Just reading and was wondering if anyone has
made the round bales and dumped them without
any twine and then bale grazed. I had thought of
trying it this year but was a little concerned of
what the wind would do to the bales. Any
thought??.

[comtex]

It would be wise to add twine...that is sisal twine, twine will act as a bale feeder to minimize the waste... a good hard bale approx 1500lbs makes for efficient bale grazing with little left behind, in fact if the weather is really cold you may have to go out and cut some of the twine so as the cows can start eating on it, their noses could get very sensitive trying to break apart the hard bales

[smcgrath76]

I know some folks that have tried it. I
think it depends a bit on the baler model.
Some say the loose hay piles up in the
bottom and they have to get out and clean
out the baler every so often.

[grassfarmer]

I would have thought using 1500lb bales to bale
graze would limit the amount of land you could cover
in a winter too much. All other things being equal i.e.
trucking cost if hay was being trucked in etc that
1000lb hard bales would be way more advantageous
in terms of effect on the land?

[ASRG]

This is just my personal opinion, but I don't really mind feeding cows with the tractor. I'd rather be sitting in a comfy cab listening to "rutherford" than out on a quad or something moving electric fences.
It probably costs me a bit more but when the wind is brutal I can feed the cows out of the wind or if it is nice I can feed them on the top of a hill.
I don't have any fancy stuff like bale processor. Just one on the grapple and one on the three point hitch. Because I don't have many cows anymore doesn't take very long. I get to see everything, everyday.

[kato]

Question for the bale grazers. Are deer an issue?

We've had as many as a hundred at a time in our hayfield across the railway track. To make it worse, these deer absolutely LOVE greenfeed. We have to keep the greenfeed closest to the house so the dogs can keep them out of it.

We already graze corn, and know for a fact that the deer have a real good time out there. We worry that bale grazing will just make for a huge deer feedlot that's full of scattered bales covered in deer droppings.

And in this neck of the woods, that's a dangerous thing, since Riding Mountain National Park is nearby, and it's a danger zone for TB.

[grassfarmer]

That's another thing I get a kick out of with the
justifying paradigms thing. Some guys that say they
move fence on bale or swath grazing once a week and
it only takes 20 minutes so they don't have to start an
engine in cold weather don't tell you that they drive
out to check their cows several other times a week, if
not every day, in a fancy truck that cost more than my
entire tractor/truck/machinery inventory!!
I don't personally see the magic in bale grazing either
- you are still mechanically harvesting a bale of hay,
possibly trucking it, setting it in place with a tractor
just the same as you would if you were feeding on a
daily basis with a tractor and a ring feeder.
There will be situations where it makes sense but
what I've seen around here is for every person bale
grazing in a good setup there are 5 "bale grazing" in
their corrals or calving paddocks, next to the yard
while a bale processor or hay saver feed bunk sits
unused in the same field. Great the power of fashion
though.