Property rights - here we go aaaagain

[grassfarmer]

A rather predictable, if short sighted response Horse.
If you cheer this crowd on in this issue you are
cheering them on on the other property theft bills
which affect all ranchers on private, rented or lease
land. Before you get going on me I don't graze any
lease land.

[smcgrath76]

Horse - crown lease comes up for sale all
the time. If you desperately want some it
is available. I think the bigger issue is
where property right issues are heading.

[Happytrails]

Right on (all but one). I think that one question we can put to the government is exactly what in the H--- they intend to do with the land that they won't lease out. A the present we lessees pay taxes and rent, build and repair fences, develop stock watering sites, put out the prairie fires and keep the range from getting into an overgrown condition. The land is generating more revenue than the administration is costing. If the government were to take on the tasks that we are currently doing and then rent at private rates I'm sure they would have less money in the end. Also I'm betting that the ranchers are looking after the land better than whoever the government could hire to do it.

Reason is on our side but that might not mean much in the end. The last election showed that the citiots will support politicians who promise to keep us country folk subordinate. I don't know if the "if you eat you are involved in agriculture" message can get through strong enough to get them listening to us. Lets give it our best. HT

[per]

smcgrath, although I totally agree with your assessment of many in public lands, they are at a crossroads right now. New Director with the very nice and capable Keith Lyseng retiring, a move of SRD to Environment and the soon to be retirement of SRD DM Morris S. A bit of disarray going on.

[ASRG]

Horse: You are missing the point entirely.
Crown leases are real property and the leasee has real property rights. Taking real property through legislative regulation is a violation of those property rights.

There is a growing trend by this Alberta government to take private property, without compensation or access to the courts. Today they take Crown grazing leases.......tommorrow they take your farm, your house, your car!

If you think that could never happen, please read the UN "Agenda 21"? It's real, Canada has signed on to it......one of the main goals is to eliminate private property.....your property!

[Horse]

ASRG I am no lawyer but the leases do state that everything is at the ministers descression, lease holders got the oil revenue probably by crooked means . YOU rent grass from the crown to graze cattle on so where does oil revenue even come in.
If youall paid a resonable rent and didnt bitch because soe wolf in the foothills ate one of your dead cows and tryed to get compensated for when in actual fact if it wasnt for past5ure but oil you rented the land for.
It was said lease holders do such a good job well who looks after the thousands of acres of green area.
As for buying a lease I dont do welfare but why would I buy something that I disagree wiht ,those leases shold be put up for auction for 10 yr terms and then we would see the real value established ( the market is always right) Leases costing several hundreds in rent yielding several thousands in oil and free grass to boot.
$10 per yr rent for a cow calf and I am suposed to sell into the same market where is the level playing field we all crave.
The bottom line if you want to run cows dont expect to have oil pay your way.
Mabey some of you lease holders would disclose what yuor costs and returns are on your leases, I dont have a lease but the going rate around here is $30/mounth and no share of any revenues coming to land owner.

[wd40]

Horse -0 every lease holder would gladly pay their higher rates for the lease if you were willing to pay for beef at the same level of “disposable income” that 3rd world countries pay. How about 100% as in one African country we visited this summer. Instead of what, you’re measly 20%. Get a real grip.

[wd40]

Right on (all but one). I think that one question we can put to the government is exactly what in the H--- they intend to do with the land that they won't lease out. A the present we lessees pay taxes and rent, build and repair fences, develop stock watering sites, put out the prairie fires and keep the range from getting into an overgrown condition.

Ya, the USA tried to do that, and the country got so over grown, fires burned up "Horse" like homes by thee millions. Guess what fire insurance rates skyrocketed on "Horse" like homes. Go for it Horse.

[Horse]

ASRG we all got our noses out of joint over the pay for no meetings and rightly so but how about a ten fold return on rent before you even put a cow out. Why cant I grow the canola I planted last yr if these property rites are so cast in stone, is it not my canola I grew it.
WD40 just open up the leases so everyone has a chance at them and watch the avalanche of aplacations,as for 3rd world prices that is my point exactly I have to sell on the same market as you but you have an 15/to 20% advantage by getting rent at app 1500% below going rates in the private sector then add on the resource revenue and I am sucking a hind tit for sure.
Why dont grasing reserves get oil revenue????
Why dont grazing allotments get oil revenue???
Back to the same question WHY DO grazing leases get OIL REVNUE?????
Paint it any way you want to but a pig is still a pig even with lipstick.

[ASRG]

Some how I am missing the canola connection?
I'm not going to disagree with you on the grazing lease/oil &gas thing. There are some problems there, but that battle was fought many years ago and was supposedly resolved?
I don't have any grazing leases.....I am in an area where basically there is no such thing....and have no desire to obtain a lease.
I would ask you though: How would you use these lands? Would you like government employees managing these lands? Would you like these lands to go back to nature?
It seems to me the people who have been managing these lands are doing a pretty good job? If they gain a few dollars why is that a bad thing? Would you rather the government gain those dollars to piss away on expense accounts and hiring scoundrel politicians who the people voted out?

I'm not completely against your position. I just think you are not getting the big picture.