"Free" Hay from Ontario/Maritimes...???

[dickens]

A word of warning to those picking up their "free" hay - didn't your parents ever teach you all that nothing is truly free? While I am sure that the farmers sending the hay west are all of the best intentions, keep in mind where the final destination of that stretch of pavement leads. I also realize that the situation is desperate in terms of feed. Still, has anyone considered the potential for invasive weeds that are quite foreign to Alberta stowing away in this "free hay"? Surely the hay coming is not choice, weed free forage. Seems to me overgrazed pastures and weedy hay are something akin to gasoline and matches. Just remember that what you don't pay for today may cost you dearly for years to come. Maybe it's better to send the cows to market, cut your losses, and regroup when weather improves then to prolong and perhaps deepen the long-term costs to your already stressed land holdings.

[cakadu]

Perhaps folks in the West don't have the same kind hearted nature as we do in the East. Yes, the chance for weeds is there, but Maritime farmers are not planning on sending their "leftovers" to the West, but good quality, much needed hay that they could have sold for their own profit. We Maritimers tend to think of the best interest of others at all times, whether it be our friends, neighbors or those we don't know. Unlike your own neighbors who are charging skyrocket prices for the stuff, remember we are sending you stuff that we could have profited from, instead we decided to help out those in need.

[tawnyamac]

Please note that the wrong login ID was used on the last thread. I appologize to lynne-adi, but it tawnyamac who the response is from.

[pandiana]

Your warning is noted, dickens, and your fears are probably well grounded regarding the importation of non-native species. Only time will tell whether we will 'pay'. On the other hand, another adage taught at home was 'beggars can't be choosers'. We are truly grateful for the good will expressed by other farms who can relate to our situation. Charity does not reside only the the east however as many in non'drought areas of Alberta and Saskatchewan have stepped in the help out those areas in dire need. Thanks to all who care.

[dalek]

Don't forgot this is being run by farmers here in the east, not politicians. We're keeping an eye on what kind of hay is going on the trains. Most people are donating only the kind of hay that they would feed themselves. I did hear of one guy taking 200 round bales in that would have been better off going to the mushroom farm, and the farmers running that yard sent it back.

[cowman]

The hay from the east is a beautiful gesture and one bright spot in a dismal situation. Not because it will save the Alberta cow herd or for that matter the farmers but because of the heartfelt concern of the people. Your generosity overwhelms us.
Still the fact of the matter is we are in a business and shouldn't have to rely on charity to make it go. If the returns on that business won't pay the expenses then I would suggest it's time to sell the business? It doesn't make much sense throwing good money after bad(or good hay away to keep a cow around for another three weeks!).
There was a good show on CBC news last night about the plight of the farmer in the drought area. One cattle farmer said he couldn't bare to part with his cows as it would be like selling one of his children! Now with an attitude like that this cattle thing is not a business! How can you ever expect to compete with someone like that? So let him blow his life savings to keep his beloved cows! I have little sympathy for someone so foolish. The cow business is becoming just about as silly as owning horses!

[Muttley]

The sending of hay wast is a wonderfull thing from fellow producers in the east!!!
One must remember that not alot is getting to any one producer out here. If you get a semi load of say 30-40 bales and you need 300,400 or more what do you do then?
How much help is this really providing? I'm not trying to sound negative but is there anybody receiving this hay that it will help them to "KEEP" their cows till next year.

[countryguy]

Cowman,your answer to everything concerning the drought is to sell the cows.I think you are forgetting that not everyone else is a millionaire that has another well established business going on the side.

These are very scary times for people.Some of these people have put an entire lifes work into building their herds of livestock.They cannot imagine life anyway else.That is why we're seeing these desperate measures taken,and in some cases tragic ones.

The other thing that is just blowing my mind is the greed that is happening in the west.It is one thing to make a profit,a very healthy profit on something,but the prices that some people are charging are utterly ridiculous.These people should be ashamed of themselves.We have good people from accross the country donating feed while neighbors are scalping neighbors.I wonder if anyone is thinking about who they are going to sell feed to in the future???????

There is no shortage of feed in western Canada,just a shortage of people who care....

[cowman]

A millionaire??? I wish...
I know that people get very attached to animals and it is tough to make changes in this life. But the one thing we can be sure of is change. And like the dinosaurs we either change or become extinct. Right now cattle don't make sense from an economic point of view. Now people can try to hang in there however they wish and maybe it will all turn out okay. But a lot of people have no clue how they are going to feed these cows this winter, I guess they are hoping for a miracle? What happens if we get a really tough winter? We're probably due. I hate to think what could happen to these people who can't bare to part with their cows. I do believe we will hear some horror stories this winter. Starving cattle, crashing markets, suicides. Some people need to face reality. Keep only what you can feed. You can always buy them back next year if you have to. Tommorrow is always a new day; a day of new opportunities!
Do you think I relish the idea of selling my cows? I don't! It will be one of the hardest things I'll ever do. Recently I had to shoot my old dog. I could have let her suffer or even sluffed it off onto the vet. I really loved that old dog, but owning animals also comes with a duty. You have to do the right thing. As my old Dad used to say "If you can't take care of them then don't own them."

[dickens]

A direct response to the following comments from lynne-adi

"Perhaps folks in the West don't have the same kind hearted nature as we do in the East."

Brilliant comment, eh? Yes, that's right, the air out here is bad, and we just are not as friendly as you are, lynne-adi! Thanks for clearing that up. By the way, many of your Maritime neighbours who have come west to find work end up staying, and many I know appreciate the friendly, good natured folks out west. They say it makes them feel at home. For the record, I never said weedy hay was KNOWINGLY being sent out, as if Ontarians/Maritimers were trying to screw their counterparts out west. I did say that the folks sending the hay have the best of intentions. Sheesh! Keep your silly east-west comparisons to yourself! Here's more....

"We Maritimers tend to think of the best interest of others at all times, whether it be our friends, neighbors or those we don't know."

Wow, and I suppose the flip side of that is that those from the west tend to think of the best interest of themselves at all times? Of course not. Bigoted stereotyping we don't need...

For the record, I was not trying to start an east-west war, lynne-adi. I was merely pointing out the reality that there are weedy species growing in central-eastern Canada that are completely foreign to the west, and I felt the risk of bringing in the hay outweighed the (very) short term benefit it might provide to a select group of cattle producers I think you will see many of the "lucky" recipients say "it seemed like such a good idea at the time......."

[dickens]

OK, as I scroll down, MY previous post is directed to tawnyamac, not lynne-adi

For what it's worth, can't we all just get along?

[cakadu]

Here is an article from a local paper:

ALARMS RAISED OVER 'CONTAMINATED CORN': - AMERICAN FEED SHIPMENT REJECTED IN
LACOMBE
August 11, 2002
Central Alberta Adviser
1 / Front
Lea Hilstrom
Lacombe County, Alberta, officials don't hold out much hope they can ward
off fusarium head blight infestation for long without the intervention of
the provincial government.
The story says that the county recently enacted a zero-tolerance policy on
knowingly importing grain and feed that is infected with the
crop-debilitating disease.
The story adds that 150 rail cars carrying American corn for
drought-stricken, feed-needy cattle and hog producers were diverted from the
Lacombe Agricore elevator shortly after the declaration was made July 30.
Officials said there was a high possibility the corn was contaminated.
Keith Boras, Lacombe County agriculture services manager, was cited as
saying that the threat of having the disease introduced into Alberta --
considered one of the last disease-free strongholds in North America -- is
high now that more farmers are being forced to source feed outside
drought-stricken Alberta.
Red Deer County officials decided last Tuesday to allow infected feed into
the county under strict management guidelines because of the feed shortage.
With adjoining municipalities allowing the feed in, Lacombe County has
little hope of averting contamination if the disease infects fields in
neighbouring counties, said Lacombe County Reeve Ray Prins.
The fungus, fusarium graminearum, causes the head blight in wheat, barley,
oats, rye, corn, and triticale.
It's impact on grade and yield has made the discounted infected feed popular
with feed-needy and cash-strapped Alberta farmers.
Wheat and barley infected with fusarium head blight may contain mycotoxins
which cattle can only handle in amounts less than 10 parts per million.
Hogs can tolerate only 0.5 parts per million.
It has reduced yields in Manitoba fields by 50 to 70 per cent.

_______
Now I happen to live in Red Deer County and I must say that I am concerned about the slippery slope that we are going down. Like it or not, dickens brings up a good point and we need to think more about the big picture and long-term. The impact of having fusarium here will be long-lasting and costly indeed.

I agree with countryguy that the prices being charged are short-sighted and not forward thinking. Given the current climate I can't blame people for charging these prices, but there comes a time when he have to quit working this as an adversarial system i.e. you made money because grain was so low, the calves were too high etc., etc. Again, we have to think for the long term and when the cattle and sheep guys aren't here to buy the hay, then what will you get for it?

I know it is very tough to have to sell off animals - we did about 3 years ago because we were getting overwhelmed with work and something had to give, so I can empathize with the attachment to animals and how hard it is to see them go. Having said that though, I think there is a great deal of difference in the "attachment" when you derive your whole livelihood from the animals and have put a lot of years in building up stock, a reputation etc. etc. and the one built when you have another job or something to go to when the cows are gone. What are these people going to do, especially if they are older and have spent their entire lives working cattle, growing grain and hay? What programs are in place now to help them deal with this huge change in their lives? How do you go from being self-employed to having to find a "job" working for someone else?

I think it's a whole lot more involved than just being attached to animals.

[cowman]

My Dutch hog farmer neighbor tells me that just about all the feed in the Netherlands has fusarium. Said it never was a big deal. He just laughs at the stories that pigs can't eat it. One way or the other its coming here and why would Lacombe county even bother to try to keep it out? Red Deer county and Lacombe share a common boundary.
I agree that some people are going to have a tough time adapting to a new way of life. It would have been helpful if the various governments could provide some retraining(like they did for the cod fishing industry) rather than try to save a dying situation. Hay from down east is nice but it won't make it rain!
In a way it is kind of ironic that people who are worth millions in assets are getting government aid. I mean they own their land, they own their cattle, they own their machinery. I don't think they would starve if they had to sell it all. Compare that to the starving kids in Africa.

[jmillang]

We have been importing feed forever from Fusarium affected areas. We are concerned about the level of infection and how we can slow the spread but to indicate that Lacombe County is free of fusarium is a bit silly. I was talking with two feed companies the other day an dboth indicated that they do test for fusarium on selected lots of grain purchased locally and both have found fusarium in locally grown feed. so to think that stopping the importation of corn is a bit like closing the gate after the cow is out the door.

[cakadu]

If fusarium is nothing to worry about, then what is the purpose in having at least one person tasked with studying it and/or keeping it out full time? It wasn't too long ago that we were reading a number of articles in papers about this "problem" and how we were trying to keep it out. Didn't the Minister even make comment on it?

This is a vicious cycle that seems to never have an end. If it takes a greater hold here and the grain guys have to start dealing with reduced yields and that whole scenario, what have we gained?

Maybe it is unrealistic to think we can keep it out and not have it affect us, but once on the slope, it's pretty hard to get off.

As for Dutch agriculture, they've had to come out with some pretty strict regulations over the years so how little of a problem was it over there?